How? It’s called “taking a job in a city other than Toronto or Vancouver.” You’re young and single; nothing’s currently tying you down. Take advantage of that, and during your job search examine the employment possibilities outside of the biggest (and most expensive) cities. You might be surprised at what you find.
I repeat: you will never save enough to protect yourself against every possible contingency. You just have to learn to accept that, or you’ll drive yourself crazy with worry.
You already have a year’s income saved. That’s an excellent start. You just need to keep steadily adding to it over the decades to come. Growing wealth is a long-term project, not a sprint.
Yes, it’s a social taboo. A lot of people will assume you’re living with your parents because you can’t hack living on your own.
Most responsible guy I know has never lived anywhere but the 'rents his entire life, except for 4 years in Uni. But, he gave up an excellent job offer out of town to move back when his Dad had a heart attack and began to manage his fathers business (which he had no interest in before).
Being an adult means many things. Chief amongst them? You need to make decisions for yourself keeping in view your interests.
Discuss it in detail with your parents what they expect. Maybe they just want to help you out while you find your feet. Maybe they are content to have you regress to a second adolescence. Maybe they are planning on spending the next few years travelling and therefore need you as an unpaid house sitter (another of my friends parents did this). Maybe they want you to eventually take over the family business. Maybe there is some illness they have not told you about.
Then make a decision.
As far as what is fair to pay to your parents - that’s so variable and completely between you and them. It is up for negotiation, but I would let them lead the negotiation. You seem to be trying to research a ‘fair’ price to pay them, but it might be more fruitful to ask them what they think is a fair price since it’s their home. Then, you can compare it to your research and decide whether you’re happy with the deal.
You seem very focused on the “fiscally responsible” path. That’s fine and all, if that’s your highest and only priority. But the other 99.9% of people juggle differing priorities. Like you, I have a high aversion to debt. Like you, I never wanted to be shackled to a soul-destroying job until I was 60. Like you, I had a large sum at a young age (I’d say between 1.5 and 2 times what you have, at the age of 18). Like you, I value financial independence. But there is so much you learn when living on your own. Juggling bills, while starting a career, and avoiding the temptation to ‘dip into’ your nest egg. I count myself extremely fortunate that I had that nest egg - the lack of stress and the security I had while learning how to live within my means (i.e, by “ignoring” the nest egg as far as living expenses go) and to do all the things that becoming an adult entails was priceless.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that you can keep your nest egg, and continue to grow it, while ‘doing it tough’ and living within your means and come out the other end I much more well-rounded person with a greater range of experiences, or you could get a somewhat higher percentage increase on your nest egg, at the expense of all those learning experiences. It’s up to you what you value more, but if you stay living with your parents (especially if not contributing fully), you will restrict yourself in a lot of other intangible ways
My oldest brother lived “at home” for a year or so right out of college, and he paid my parents some rent. It was a chance for him to save up a little more cash; he later moved out and shared an apartment with a friend for a few years until he moved to another city.
Yes, it’s going to impact your social life a bit.
And I imagine it can be hard for the parents to let go their habitual role of watching over and enforcing rules the way they’d been doing for the past 22 years.
Anyway - I see nothing wrong with the concept. Your parents may not “need” the money but hell, it’ll help pay down the mortage a bit or let them have fun. There may even be times where it’s helpful to them to have you around (what’s their health like, for example?).
Just set up-front expectations on both sides. Make sure you’re not expecting Mommy to feed you and do your laundry; if you take meals with them, contribute grocery money. Clean up after yourself, etc. - in short, do all the things you’d have to do if you were on your own. Otherwise yeah, LOSER-ville. I’m not saying you would go down that path, but we do read about families where the “adult” child expects to be taken care of, and really is a parasite.
[I’ve only read the first page thus far, but I wanted to respond to this.]
It’s interesting how we can redefine the word ‘failure’ merely by crossing a cultural line. I’m American and have always felt there was something a bit wrong with families fragmenting as soon as children hit 18-ish. I know that it’s ingrained and simply the expected thing to do, but it still feels wrong somehow. Not to mention fiscally stupid. Who came up with this idea that every pair of adults in the country should have their own house or apartment?
Having lived in various places in Southeast Asia, I’ve come to see the family structure here as - IMHO of course - superior. Yes, privacy is curtailed. But I’m not sure that privacy alone is reason enough to shell out twenty to forty thousand dollars a year in maintaining your own residence.
I currently live with my Thai inlaws in a fairly large house (six bedrooms), who are heartbroken that one of their three sons has decided to move out and get a small apartment downtown. They are asking themselves - wait for it - where their failure lies in the raising of this child. “Who will look after us when we’re old?”, they ask. Keep in mind they still have two younger sons at home who don’t show any signs of wanting to go anywhere.
They like having me there simply for the company, and I’m pleased that they don’t ask me to pay any rent. When I asked why, the response was “because you’re family!” Being a westerner in a sweltering climate, I do run the a/c ten months out of the year and because of that I pay about two-thirds of the electric bill, and I pay the entire broadband bill because I’m the 800 pound internet gorilla.
I know this was a huge aside, but I just wanted to throw in another angle that, just maybe, some western families might tend to agree with.
I’ve had friends over the years either moving back home or not leaving home for any number of reasons – financial, illness, you name it. In my case there was no way my mother could keep our house without my additional income, so a portion every paycheck I had from the age of 14 up until she became sick went to her. She used it to partly pay the mortgage and the utilities. We took turns paying for groceries. I did the heavy chores on my days off from work. In exchange for a roof over my head, I still had to abide by her house rules – namely, 1) no overnight visitors of the opposite sex and 2) call if you’re going to be late coming home. I considered both a small price to pay.
In our culture it’s been almost always taboo for a male to continue living at home after univerisity and/or around that age bracket. Other posters have pointed out the reasons. OTOH I don’t think the taboo is as strong when it comes to females. Given the Great Recession, though, it shouldn’t be surprising that many young people have no choice but to move back home. The OP doesn’t sound like he’s part of that, though, and I think other posters have already pointed out as to why.
You know, I had a much smaller nest egg at your age, and I had resolved to keep it.
So I just pretended that it didn’t exist. I lived entirely within my means. And it was tough, because my means at right out of college were minimum wage part time jobs. I was broke as a joke. People here told me just to spend it, but I stayed stubborn.
As time went on, I eventually started to let some it go traveling, while always keeping a nice cushion. Had a good run of things- some 23 countries and years on the road. Now I’m older, in a good career track, have a job that has travel built in, and looking to buy a house in one of the most expensive cities in the US. We won’t be getting an amazing home, but we will find something perfect.
In short, you can hold on to your money (and even save), live independently, and have the outcome you want. You just have to live frugally for a while, which is fine. It’s good practice, builds character, and gives you something in common with 99% of people.
A rented room in a shared apartment shouldn’t be more that expensive. If it is, people your age do stuff like share rooms, rent walk-in closets, etc. It sucks, but after that everything else will seem luxurious.
I agree with the estimate of fuel costs, and I’ll take the parking rate at your word, but why the hell would a brand new car need $1k in maintenance per year? A new car should only need a routine oil changes which are cheap, and you can even learn to do yourself if you are that determined to save money.
Yes. Pretty much anything you buy involves sales tax.
Well, OK, then take the bus. Like I said, I made the same decision when I was your age living in Chicago.
I was in Chicago, which is a pretty expensive city, too.
Again, you have a completely distorted view of housing. I know several people living in or near Toronto and they aren’t in million dollar houses - yet they are raising kids and aren’t robbed daily. Or at all.
If you’re starting out as a single guy you don’t need a three bedroom home. You need a small apartment. If, as you say, you are seldom home and mostly just need a place to sleep get a studio, which gives you a place sleep, a place to put your stuff, and a small kitchen. Then bank the difference between that and the three bedroom house.
Why do you assume owning an airplane is part of that? I rented an airplane when I wanted to fly, much more cost effective in my circumstances. Instead of paying 365 days for an airplane I only paid for the hours I actually used one.
Likewise, my spouse and I have always sought housing with an eye to frugality. Currently, we have 1,100 square feet (103 square meters), 2 bedrooms, parking for two vehicles, and all utility costs included in the rent for under $8000 a year. Of course, we didn’t insist on the wealthiest neighborhoods and we actually moved out of the city at one point (so I took the train in every day to work - public transit again). We’re only about 16 km from the Chicago border so it’s not like we moved to the boondocks.
I don’t know if you could do the same in the Toronto area but several people are encouraging to take another look at the area because your minimums are just plain whack.
If you need emergency surgery in Canada you will get it. If it’s not an emergency you can wait… just like everybody else. If US medical prices are too much for you try someplace like India which has competent doctors and is happy to accommodate your medical tourism for a pittance.
Yes, it is a social liability.
I did date a man who was still living at home, but it was during the first couple years post-college for him. He was on the bottom tier of his job ladder and just starting out, but he at least had a job, a car, and did his share around his parents house. In his case, he didn’t have $50k in the bank so he really did have a pressing reason to save his money. Much past a year or two post college you really have to wonder about people who don’t move out in our mainstream North American cultures.
If you want to stay home then do so - but do so with the knowledge that people will pass judgement on that decision and it will impact your dating life.
The most worrying thing about this situation is that I suspect the OP will never truly feel he has enough money. If that is how he is keeping score then pretty much every expenditure out of his own pocket is going to hurt like a bitch. It is going to be resented and I suspect his enjoyment of life is going to be curtailed severely.
I’ve met people before with exactly this outlook. They kill themselves climbing the ladder to ensure they can afford the lifestyle that they think is “necessary”. They have massively expensive house and car repayments and work such long hours that they can’t actually experience an enjoyable lifestlye at all.
They keep up with their peers even though their peers are struggling as well.
They scrimp for retirement funds to ensure that they have a pot of potential money that they may or may not live to see and end up physically incapable of exploiting due to old age.
I’d suggest you try enjoying your youth now. I promise you without a shadow of a doubt you will turn around aged 50 and wish you’d spent these years living a little while the bones are strong and the spirit is willing.
You have 50 grand…50 fucking grand!!! that’s beyond the ken of most university leavers. How much more do you want or need? Do you have a target amount or just a nagging suspicion that it isn’t big enough yet?..sheesh.
Oh, and live within your means…that is…your means, not those artificially boosted by your parents. I think there is a world of difference between a parent supporting a child in financial dire straits and being taken advantage of. With the assets you have you fall clearly into the latter category regardless of how willing they are to “help out”.
The fact that you even have to ask whether you should pay your parents is quite staggering to me. Both my wife and I started working at 16 and immediately *offered * board and lodging to our parents and continued to do so until we bought our own (small, cheap) place at 23. At which point we considered our savings, calculated our expenditure, made reasonable allowances for job-losses etc…then decided how much we could afford to spend…then decided what house to buy.
Paying your own way is what an adult should do. If you have the mathematical ability to gamble on the stock market successfully then you are fully capable of calculating what a reasonable amount is to pay your parents.
Christ!..incoherent rant over, froth wiped up and blood pressure slowly reducing.
OP – I think you have too much anxiety about money. It sounds like you’ve done great so far, but you don’t need to worry so damn much. If you want to have a decent life as a single young man, you certainly have the money for it. Here’s what you can do, while still having plenty left over for worries and such:
Get a decent job. It doesn’t have to be in Toronto or Vancouver.
Get an apartment. If you want to save more money, get a roommate. Live with one of your college buddies, if possible. It’s OK if your living standards are a bit lower… for me, living with my parents would be worse living standards than a shack with an outhouse. What do you really need, after all, more than a place to sleep, a bathroom, a kitchen, TV, and internet? There’s nothing wrong with renting. Most people rent before they own a home, and that’s fine.
Rely on public transportation if possible, or bike to work, or get a scooter. Or get a reliable used car… you can afford it.
Put a few hundred a month in savings and/or mutual funds.
If you do that, you’ll be doing well as a young single guy, both socially and fiscally – better than most of your peers, for certain.
Most homes in Spain aren’t large enough for the kind of situation you describe in your post, but I know several families which own a whole tenement, or several flats within the same one. The idea I encountered from many Americans that if you go to college in your home town you still should “move out” because otherwise you’re “losing out on the college experience” was a complete cultural shock to me: I’m used to “ok, since we’re lucky to live in a college town, you’ll choose one of the local college+major combos so you can stay home”. Those of us who don’t have that luck have a different set of good news: since we have to leave home anyway, we can choose any college that will accept us!
Welcome to adulthood. Figure it out, or get a job somewhere that suits you better financially and move. Moving back in with your parents just because you want to avoid paying rent is lame.
I’ve managed to get by on less than $30k a year in 1) the Chicago suburbs and 2) an Ivy-league collegetown. By your standards, this is impossible, but people everywhere are doing it every day. Chillax, my friend.
And yeah, healthy relationships rarely happen for someone who lives with their parents, at least in my cultural sphere (white, lower-middle class, 25-35 years old). Like it or not, you’ll be judged and found wanting if you live with mommy and daddy after college.
One point worth considering: Living in an apartment of your own, that you’re paying for youself, feels really great. Knowing that you’ve managed to put a roof over your head, and keep it there, is quite a thing. Plus, you get to make all the decisions about your home. Those photographs on the wall? You chose them; heck, if you’re me, you’ve shot many of them. The furniture is stuff you plunked your ass down on in Ikea yourself, then assembled yourself, whilst shouting curses entirely of your own selection. Living in a shared house - whether with friends or parents - is just no comparison.
I grew up in a series of large, suburban houses. I live now in a 600-square-foot studio - and I couldn’t be happier. I promise, especially as a single guy, you don’t need nearly the space that a house provides - you’ll be much happier in a small apartment.
No, why change his mind? OP, if your parents are truly happy with you moving home, go ahead and do so. Offer them money, and if they won’t take it, buy groceries, do chores, etc.
Rest assured living at home is going to impact your social life. I wouldn’t date a man in your situation not even with all your money. But that doesn’t mean no one will… It will just take you longer. And it will be a little harder to hang out with your friends.
Do your parents have an enclosed basement or some other way you can make yourself a sort of suite?
I would rather be destitute than move back home. But my parents were not good parents. In your case it’s clearly different.
Be aware, though, that there are aspects of living on your own that you are missing and you will have to learn them later. This is not insurmountable but it’s harder in your thirties than in your twenties.
Money is your prime motivator. Mine was my independence, and yes, I’d rather work and live on my own. Everyone’s situation is different. Presumably you don’t have an arranged marriage lurking for you!
In the end I just hope you’re happy with the choices you’ve made. I’ve regretted many choices in my life. Moving out of my parents’ home has never been one of them.
The point is, the OP doesn’t LIVE in a society that this is the norm. Parents in our current society raise children with the goal to be independent and self sufficient. That isn’t saying that a child shouldn’t move back in when in trouble but I consider it a failure for a parent to raise a child who thinks it is perfectly acceptable to come back and mooch off of them to save a few bucks. Especially when they have funds and prospects to do otherwise.
I suspect any potential relationships that the poster may encounter won’t be thinking that this type of behavior is culturally acceptable in other parts of the world but more wondering why she is dating a loser that wants to live with his Mommy.
My parents were wonderful parents. I live around the block from them in order to be close. However, I would rather be destitute than to move back in with them as well. I value my independence and would certainly think of myself a failure as a parent if my son wanted to move back in and be taken care of at 25.
