I’ve seen estimates from a low of “in line with secular society” (IE 3-5%) up to estimates of 50% or better for the cohort of men that entered the Priesthood in the 70’s, 80s and 90s.
Any credible estimates re the current percentages?
How would a “credible” estimate be calculated? Catholic priests are supposed to be, you know, celibate.
Estimates seem to range from less than 10 percent to around 50 percent.
I haven’t done any serious study- I can only rely on my own flawed gaydar and on conversations I’ve had with Catholic clergy.
The number of men entering seminaries has dwindled over the past few decades. You just don’t see that many young men becoming priests, period. Of the ones that do, I’ve found that, depending on the order, you have a huge percentage of gays, AND a huge percentage of very dogmatic ultraconservatives.
In the Paulist order (long known as one of the most liberal orders of the Catholic priesthood), a former seminary director tells me that young seminarians are overwhelmingly gay. So overwhelmingly that the few straight seminarians usually decide after a few weeks “This isn’t for me,” and drop out. Mind you, this former seminary director is (like most Paulists) VERY liberal, and doesn’t have any animosity toward gays- rather, he’s troubled by the degree to which the Paulists are becoming, de facto, a gay order.
On the other hand, in some diocesan orders, the young priests you encounter are almost frighteningly conservative (and I say this as a pretty rigid, doctrinaire conservative myself). Not gay, but not guys I could easily picture in a healthy heterosexual relationship, either.
Tom~ may be able to produce some accurate figures on this subject. There is a lot of allegations of rampant homosexuality and/or pedophilia in the Catholic priesthood, most of it by people with an axe to grind. However, there is some evidence that prior to gay liberation, the priesthood furnished a refuge for gay men where the idea that “a real man marries” is superseded by the celibacy requirement. So, without any slams against Catholicism or the priesthood, the percentage of gay men in the priesthood may be significantly higher than that in the general population.
This article offers some intriguing numbers regarding Roman Catholic Priests who may or may not be homosexuals.
Cartooniverse
OK, you do know that sexual orientation is not the same thing as sexual activity, right? A celibate gay priest is still gay and a celibate straight priest is still straight.
I guess TD was referring to how it would be hard to do an objective survey due to the Church rather not knowing – but you’re right, Otto, on orientation vs. conduct. The real difficulty in doing a valid survey would be the Church’s hostile position vis-a-vis homosexual orientation.
I think the point was that, if someone isn’t sexually active, it’s a lot harder to tell what their sexual orientation is.
Let’s see:
Gays are supposed to be celibate :rolleyes:
Priests are supposed to be celibate :rolleyes:
So gays are supposed to be priests :dubious:
My experiences are similar to that of Astorian with a lot of anecdotal claims that the seminaries “all” either extremely rigidly right wing or are so desperate to encourage candidates that they have ignored (some would say promoted) homosexuality to the point of creating gay ghettoes.*
My direct contacts with seminaries are long out of date and my view of the anecdotal claims varies between mild skepticism and incredulity.
I had a lot of friends among seminarians in the 1960s and 1970s and the one class among whom I had the most friends eventually had two guys come out out of a class of 26 ordained. They each left the priesthood. (“Everyone knows” that a third guy is supposed to be gay, but he is very much celibate.)
As an (imperfect) analogy to the “guys enter the seminary to avoid standing out as unmarried” theme, there was a lot of talk that the briefly higher number of seminarians at the beginning of the 1970s was a function of guys avoiding the draft. Against that claim is the fact that the draft codes were re-organized to replace the IV-D exemption (“divinity” or religious exemption) with a II-D exemption for guys below the post-graduate level. This meant that bad grades got you drafted the same as they would for a II-S (student) deferment. Vietnam wound down before the larger classes made it past the II-D status, yet the majority of guys went on to the priesthood, anyway.
This is not to say that no one ever used the priesthood as camouflage for an unmarried lifestyle–and the question is a valid one regardless of the answer–but I am not sure that we will ever have real numbers to support any of the guesses.
- (The “encourage homosexuality” claim has an interesting side note. A lot of the people who are screaming that we need to “crack down” on the seminaries in response to the pedophile issue are ignoring the fact that the overwhelming number of priests accused of pedophilia were educated under the “old school” rules–with a large number even being ordained before the completion of the Second Vatican Council. The number of pedophiles seems to have fallen off with the increase in perceived acceptance of homosexuality in the seminaries. Of course, with a declining number of priests, overall, it is not possible to draw serious conclusions in this case, either.)
That’s quite true in Roman Catholicism (unless they are married to a woman and practice heterosexual sex).
True in Latin Rite Roman Catholicism.
Since a gay Roman Catholic is in theory supposed to be celibate, whether a priest or not, the celibacy requirement would presumably provide less of a barrier than to a heterosexual male, who would have the option of marriage.
I’m not sure what all the rolleyes are about.
St. Mychal Judge (many of us Anglicans recognize him, even if the “cause” for his canonization is stalled in the Vatican) was unquestionably a completely celibate Franciscan friar/priest who was also active in several NYC gay movements, and saw outreach to them, along with FDNY, as an important part of his ministry.
He was gay by orientation, not by practice, just as Otto suggests.
Actually, I think it’s higher now than the the 80’s and early 90’s. Of course, people foten think it’s very low comparitively because the 50’s were so high.
Actually, he doesn’t have to be celibate, but he’s not supposed to messa round with other men.
How could we get such stats? Should I randomly call RCC priests as a pollster and ask “I know as a priest you are celibate. However, do you lust in your heart after men or women?”
Any unmarried Roman Catholic is in theory supposed to be celibate, gay or straight. Sex is, in theory, for the purpose of procreation within matrimony. As I mentioned in my first post, it is possible that a gay Roman Catholic could marry a woman and have heterosexual within marriage.