How good a fighter would Tyson have been if he controlled his self-destructiveness?

Watching the Jack Johnson DVD got me wondering where Mike Tyson would have ranked if things had turned out differently.

In the 1987-1988 timeframe, he really appeared unbeatable (although some claimed the heavyweight division didn’t have much talent). He had truly awesome power. His fights rarely lasted more than a round or two.

IIRC, the death of his longtime coach Cuss D’Amato was a major turning point in his downward spiral. Signing on later with the anti-Christ (legal name, Don King) couldn’t have helped much either.

I will never forget the Buster Douglas fight – I declined a chance to watch it with a buddy. When I talked to my buddy the next morning before I’d looked at a paper, I thought he was pulling my leg when he told me Tyson had been knocked out.

In the Jack Johnson DVD, some writers assert that Johnson was the greatest heavyweight of all time, and that Johnson in his prime would have beaten Ali in his prime.

How would either of them fared against a 1987-vintage Tyson?

Could Tyson have kept his demons in check and stayed on top?

If so, how long could he have remained a great fighter?

Under Cuss D’Amto, Tyson would of been the greatest. He was a father figure to Tyson and you can debate wether after D’amto’s death that was when Tyson really started to spiral downward.

Bear in mind that I’m not much of a fighting fan but I think Tyson could’ve been another Ali. Or at least another George Foreman (assuming there aren’t enough already ;)).

All I know is that, one punch from him and I was down. And forget about getting a star on him. Those other guys never got close to preparing me for the beatdown that was Tyson. Bald Bull? Soda Popinksy? Nothing. Nothing at all.

Matching Tyson’s punching power against Johnson’s impenetrable defense would have really been something – sort of like watching God try to create a rock so heavy he couldn’t lift it.

I think he would have been incredible.

He had absolutely stellar head movement. But it doesn’t appear that he has a great jaw.

If he had beat Buster, maintaining the aura of invincibility, I don’t see Holyfield, Bowe Tua, or the un-retired Foreman of the mid-90’s beating him.

Now, Lennox Lewis, on the other hand could have been trouble. Young Tyson gets inside on him and takes him out. Let’s say Tyson is still undefeated in about '97 or '99 and he meets Lewis. Given that we now know Tyson doesn’t have a great chin (he never got hit when he was young), I think perhaps the wily Lewis could keep him on the end of the jab, and maybe sneak in a big right if Tyson got frustrated and sloppy. Lewis could have outpointed or KOed Tyson but I don’t know if I would have bet on it.

Still, even under that scenario of ripping through the 90s and then a loss to Lewis or some other random cat, he could have gone down as the greatest. There are, of course, people who will never allow a fighter to usurp Ali’s throne, but a well-handled Tyson would have made the debate more interesting.

I don’t know that much about boxing (I did see the first part of the Jack Johnson special and really enjoyed it), but couldn’t it be argued that Tyson had peaked?

not really. Not at such a young age. Boxers really don’t seem to peak until past 30.
He lost to Douglas at the age of 24.

Losing his friend and long time trainer, D’Amato was really big for him.

I do believe you. Man, I forgot how young he was… anyway I figured somebody should throw the idea out there.

I always hoped that D’Amato would open a car detailing shop: Cuss D’Amato’s Custom Autos. :slight_smile:

I think I basically agree with Trunk, Tyson would beat everybody until at least Lewis or possibly Holyfield, and that’s enough to get him listed among the greats. It would also have helped Lewis’s ranking as well, if he was able to beat a legendary Tyson instead of the version he really fought.

Young Tyson, under D’Amato, was not just a great athlete; he was a real student of boxing. He’d stay up all night watching film of old fights, analyzing how they moved and interacted.

D’Amato’s death did to Tyson what Grace’s death did to Elvis.

He was unbeatable when Cus D’amato and Kevin Rooney were handling him. His downfall was because of three things: Robin Givens, D’amato’s death, Robin Givens and his firing of Rooney. Oh, and Robin Givens.

I completely agree with your point, but Elvis’s mom was named Gladys.

Graceland had been named by the doctor Elvis bought it from (IIRC, after the doctor’s daughter).

Having lived in Memphis for eight years, I now feel like a total dumbass.

[sarcasm]Um, yeah, Robin Givens made him beat her. And made him punch that guy in the face after that traffic “mishap.” And made him munch on Holyfield’s ear when he was losing a fight a few years back.[/sarcasm]

Mike Tyson is a pig who should be banned from boxing forever.