How good would Harris be in the general?

Politics & Elections
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Pretty broad (never universal) consensus that Kamala Harris was the stand-out, heads and shoulders, in the first debate round, that she is the potential Biden-beater more than either Warren or Sanders. I stated in another thread how I think her performance strongly declared her brand to be her ability to prosecute the case against Trump in a way no one else can (not identity politics).

As one of many I think who have been saying Biden as default but without enthusiasm I could see myself getting excited about her as president. What I still need to be convinced about is that she has the goods to assuredly win against Trump.

Someone please make the case of how she will dominate in PA, MI, and WI, first of all. How does she play to the Obama-Trump voters? To the Clinton-Romney ones? How does she play in the states that we could really use some coat tails to pull off key Senate wins (NC, ME, CO, MO, AZ, maybe even GA, IA, and TX)?

Can she pull off the trick of keeping key voters of sometimes overlapping and sometimes different interests in the tent all energized (Democratic women, Black voters, and younger progressives), while possibly getting Hispanic voters of their butts, AND getting across the message to less educated white voters that she gets and cares about their very real problems too?

Many pundits have been pointing out that the raised hands to eliminate all private insurance plays well to the base but is going to be a vulnerability in the general. Hell even Medicare for current Medicare receivers often go to private for extra coverage. I’m guessing she can finesse that as the race goes on but it is a concern.

As to her gender, she hits what is needed to get voters to go there. No one would ever call her a schoolmarm. And while she prosecuted Biden extremely effectively she managed to do it in a way that no one could attach “nasty” or “bitch” to. She was strong, not mean, while still sharing the authentic personal.

Her being of color is no problem to Obama-Trump voters so long as she also empathizes with the real problems that face less educated whites and, unlike HRC, does not dis them by disregard.

Sell me. please!

2

I can’t see any Trump voters voting for a woman or a person of color.

3

So you cannot see those who voted for Obama voting for a person of color? Interesting position tom take.

4

I didn’t see her as a winner. She was the little girl who was bused? Because the local city did it before the Feds did? She attacked Bisen, sure, but I thought he parried her attacks well.

Hickenlooper did well on track record and getting things done, but he remains Hickenlooper.

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I think it’s good that Harris showed some vigor and tenacity, and I agree that those characteristics would serve her well in a debate against someone like Trump.

If there’s a problem that I had with Harris’ performance last night, it’s that I didn’t really appreciate the substance of her grievance with Biden. Biden has a good track record on race, and I think she and others know that. Ironically, she needlessly used race as a wedge issue in a campaign, which is something that may come back to haunt her if she ends up winning the nomination.

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Woman vs. man. I believe it makes a difference.

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I think this applies to a substantial number of Trump voters, but not all of them—and many of the ones to whom it does apply are going to vote for Trump anyway.

Part of me thinks that the Democrats and Trump-haters are going to vote for whoever the Democrats run, so the best strategy is to pick a “safe” candidate that conservative and undecided voters who aren’t all in on Trump would feel comfortable with. And a white male might be “safest” in this sense.

On the other hand, would such a “safe” candidate cause many potential voters to just stay home on election day, because there wasn’t anyone they felt good about voting for?

And if the Democrats play to win in 2020 and end up with a President who is divisive, unpopular, or incompetent, I fear that would come back to bite them in 2024, and/or in 2022.

8

Interesting take here from Paste: Kamala Harris Won the Stupid Debates. Here’s What Makes Her So Good

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She’s clearly a contender to be reckoned with. I think her “For the People” slogan is going to get some traction. She’s in it to win it. You can tell she means it.

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Born in early 60’s , foreign born black father, first term senator. Sounds familiar.

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What makes her good in the primary might not make her look so good in the general election. She and Julian Castro, like AOC, might make progressives feel good with their hard-charging attacks, but that may not translate to success. Democrats have to win over independents and even moderates in their own party.

Whether progressives like to admit it or not, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton have been the most successful progressive politicians over the past 40 years. They didn’t achieve success by accusing their democratic opponents (who ultimately need to be allies) of closet racism or by being unprincipled corrupt puppets of corporate America. In fact Jerry Brown infamously tried that approach in 1992 against Clinton and got his ass handed to him. And contrary to what many want to believe, Bernie Sanders still lost to the “worst nominee the democratic party could have possibly selected” :rolleyes:.

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This is pretty much my take.

It’s sad to say, but the most important fact I’m looking at right now is someone who can handle Trump and his bull shit name calling, and bullying tactics with out looking like a “triggered” liberal.

Kamala and Buttigieg, are the two top contenders in that arena.

TBF: Biden is actually pretty good at handling Trump’s BS tactics. But his way of dealing with Trumps is to beat him at his own game. Which makes Kamala and Buttigieg seem more like the adults in the room. As their way of dealing with Trump is more reserved and nuanced.

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There is some truth here. Candidates need to be able to pivot for the general. Harris may just be able to do that - we’ll have to see how she is in the other debates when there will be like half the people on stage and real conversations can develop. I do think Warren can do that pivot (it makes Sanders fans think she isn’t a real progressive - but they think that of Harris too).

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I don’t think she used race as a wedge issue.

She just set up Biden to fumble by giving him the space to do so. He will HAVE to defend past votes and admit past calls that seemed right for the time but in retrospect were not. With a record as long as his there is a lot to work with and Team Trump will run ads highlighting every one of them trying to suppress turnout from the D tent. This was not an under the belt blow. It was a straightforward question: do you still think that was the right vote?

Either you say clearly why today you still think that it was the right thing to do, strongly and clearly, or you say that over many decades you and the country have both evolved together with you being part of leading that evolution (accomplishments A through H). He came off more like deer in headlights instead.

There is a major difference in the way Booker played this and the way Harris did.

Keeping this focused though. At this stage she needs to steal the Black support ball from Biden. Playing out the hypothetical of this thread that she is the nominee, in the general she will be trying to pivot to that for all the people message. Not running as “Her” or as a person of color but for everyone’s votes.

What evidence do we have for and against her ability to make that sale?

I need to hear her make the case of how Trump has failed whites with less education and show that she can resonate with them better than HRC did. I do not accept that her identities alone disqualify her with all of them, but neither do I assume she has the goods to do so.

A Harris VP needs to be an explicit nod to the importance of those voters. Which is not Mayor Pete.

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This is quite true. And frankly Kamala Harris is exactly the same sort of MOR Democrat. She’s not an aggressive progressive - she’s an aggressive prosecutor. Progressives better remember that if she wins and as with Obama starts showing signs of not being as liberal as they in a year or two.

I was just fine with Obama and I suspect I’d be fine with Harris. But I’m a pragmatist before I’m a progressive. If you start looking for progressive purity tests, Kamala Harris will not pass them.

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Harris is not a very good candidate IMO. Despite her widely praised debate performance I have serious doubts about her political competence, and I would point to her confusion about her health care plan.
Here is Holt’s question:

If you look at the last sentence in isolation there could be some ambiguity about “their” but in context there is no ambiguity at all. He explicitly refers to the earlier debate after which Warren’s response to this question was widely discussed. There is a clear sentence talking about people getting health insurance through their employer. I don’t see any room for confusion.

Harris raised her hand but now claims that she “misheard” it and thought it was about personally giving up a private insurance plan. I find that hard to believe.The astonishing thing she got caught on this exact issue in May. Healthcare is arguably the single most important issue in this election. A candidate who can’t get their basic talking points straight on this issue isn’t very competent.

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I doubt she shifts many votes from R to D. But if she rhetorically smacks the shit out Trump, both on the stump and on the stage, as I think she might have the capability to do, then she could well motivate many of the tens or hundreds of thousands of liberals and moderates who didn’t vote in PA, WI, MI, and other swing states.

And that’s really the fundamental choice – which is more likely, and more important – shifting some Trump voters to D, or getting the D’s (and lean D’s) who sat on their ass in 2016 out to vote? I think the latter is probably more likely and thus more important, and thus I lean towards a candidate who will have that capability. I think Harris might have that capability, and for that reason she’s near the top of my list.

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Hey, don’t talk about Harris in that way!

But seriously, I find her very credible, maybe my emerging favorite. She is as sharp as Buttijej but with the extra bit of age and experience. I think her fierceness could be the special sauce that puts her over the top. Wanna fight Trump? Harris has your fight right here! (I even described her as a “ball buster” to someone last night)

I think her style of presentation can make a huge difference. I like Warren and Gillibrand, but they don’t seem to be nailing it like Harris. I was pleasantly surprised with Hickenlooper… I really liked Yang’s self-command, but I wonder if his proposals are too out-there. I think Biden stammers too much, sorry.

I see Harris as having “leadership qualities”. I like her resume and I like her tone. I like the fight she’s got in her.

19

Even in jest, this is not cool. It changes the meaning of the quote where the punchline is sexism. Don’t do this.

[/moderating]

20

Ok, sorry.