How hard is a brake job to do on a pontiac sunfire?

Shops do get parts for a discounted price. Why do they mark the parts up?
It takes a certain amount of profit to keep a shop open. Profit comes from marking up parts and labor over cost so that the shop can pay rent, electricity, and give the owner a profit.
Do you ask why the local restaurant doesn’t sell bacon and eggs at cost? Why not? It’s the same thing.
As far as bringing your own parts goes besides the profit issue above you get into quality and liability issue.
Customer brings in an inferior part. Shop installs it. It breaks in short order. Who pays to replace it a second time? The shop did not supply the defective part it is not their fault. The customer is a cheap fuck he doesn’t want to pay again and will bad mouth the shop.
Furthermore if the part fails and there is an accident the shop, despite having not sourced the part, can be held liable for damages. Courts have held that the shop is a professional and should have known better. It is becoming common for their liability insurance to exclude coverage on customer supplied parts.

Now getting back to your car.
Everybody go back and read the OP. The guy is going to replace the front pads, period.
($25/pad X 4 pads + $100 labor total $200)
He is not replacing or turning rotors and he is not doing the rear brakes.
Now assuming the OP told him what he has told us (vibration when braking grinding noise form the REAR)
Now Jake you don’t know me, but I have been fixing cars as a profession for over twice as long as you have been alive. I know my shit, ok? So listen up
Replacing the front brake pads by themselves will NOT FIX a brake vibration nor will it fix a grinding noise from the REAR of the car.
This guy has already misdiagnosed your car.
Think about that.
He has already fucked up. Are you sure you want him anywhere near your car’s brakes?

I did all the brakes on my 2001 Pontiac grand am for about $50. Rotors appeared in good shape. If they’re scored I replace them. If I’m doing the labor then the extra cost of the rotors isn’t worth me dragging them down to a shop to have them turned.

I’m not sure if gauging the thickness is the sole measure of rotor integrity as they rust from the inside out as well as wear from contact with the pads. The rotors on my 2000 Saturn disintegrated at 200K miles. They went from perfectly smooth to pock marked in one hard braking action. Made quite the racket. Never seen anything like it before.

OK. This you can pay the kid to do.

Remove rear wheels (only). Remove rear drums. Clean and adjust rear shoes. Replace drums. Replace wheels.

The rear drum breaks are supposed to self-adjust, typically accomplished by breaking while in reverse. When clean and well-maintained, the self-adjusters only work well enough to say they work. After 12 years of neglect, the self-adjusters are probably not working at all.

There may be something else wrong back there. It’s hard to tell without taking the drums off and inspecting them.

What you believe you need and what you actually need are not necessarily the same. Until the car is inspected by someone knowledgeable about brakes, you’re dealing in speculation.

It’s certainly possible, but we really have no way of knowing what his capabilities are.

What does this mean? Really. I’ve never heard of brake work being charged on a per pad basis. Pads come in sets of four, using two per wheel so a set would cover the front brakes or the rear brakes but not both. The per tire part is even odder and more confusing.

A whole brake job? On the whole vehicle? Methinks you have no idea what you’re talking about here.

There is no precise meaning to the term “brake job.” There are a lot of different things that can be done on brake systems, and no universal agreement as to which are standard on a brake job.

This comment tells me you have no clue as to how auto repair is normally billed – which is by the job, not by the clock.

Shops don’t charge per pad. Nobody (except maybe this dude) charges per pad. Pad replacement is charged per axle. 200 is not cheap to replace the four pads on one axle (front or rear but not both). For doing both axles it’s an attractive price if premium grade pads are used, but not such a good deal if it’s with economy pads.

In today’s market individuals can often buy parts for about what repair shops pay for them. And shops don’t stay in business selling stuff for what it cost them – they mark it up and make some profit. Otherwise why bother?

justjake FYI Gary T owns his own repair shop. You have now been told by two people that fix cars for a living that you are not getting a bargain.

Here’s the problem.

No one has really given me a “good solution” everyone has just kinda bickered back and fourth about prices.

I should’ve clarified in the beginning, my fault.

I’ve got no more then 400 to spend. I want as much fixed as possible. That will probably include buying my own parts.

I currently know of or know any mechanics i can trust that own a shop that i’d trust with my car. It’s the first time i’ve had decent work done on this car.

I don’t know if i trust the kid that much with this, like you guys said a fuel filter is different from brakes.

I also know that shops will try to take longer often times and are trying to make money. The problem is i need a good amount of work done, and i don’t have that oney to give them. The money i make from my job goes to more important things.

How do i get this done… (wait for it) cheap AND done well. I know it’s insane to ask for the two together because “you pay for quality” but i know that some people told me in theory it only takes 30-45 minutes to do the front pads on my car for each pad and it takes NO LONGER to put on new rotors. What all can i get done on my car that doesn’t take “extra time” really that will help my car out a lot?
Lastly it’s 11 years old, probably never had any kind of brake bleed or flush. But only 73k miles. Should i get it bled? Based off that info (that’s all you’d need, even online)

I need all my tire parts (rotors, all that shit) to be analyzed and determined what i “really” need and what i dont.

I also need it to NOT be fucked with (going to a shop where they know i don’t know about cars and convienently i end up with all four tires messed up) (i’ve seen this happen to my mom before)

I also need it to be done cheap and probably with my own parts. There has to be some way in theory i can get a good amount of parts replaced including rotors and probably with stuff better then the low quality and maybe another part or so and a brake flush/bleed for 400 or less. Also, with it being looked at and diagnosed too.

That has to happen or i have no choice but to say “fuck it” and just drive it around how it is.

Seeing as your good solution is “cheap AND done well” you’re right, and unfortunately it’s not likely we’ll be able to do better for you over the internet.

Take longer? Not at all – the faster they get it done the more they make. Try to sell more work? Often, yes. Sometimes this additional work is necessary or very desirable, other times it’s more of a ploy to get more money. Dealing with a competent honorable shop is the way to avoid the latter.

This fellow who replaced your fuel filter may be competent and honorable, or he may not be. We don’t have enough info make a judgment.

You said it, and you’re right again.

Who gives a rat’s butt how long it takes when the work is billed by the job and not by the clock? (And the “for each pad” part there is nonsensical.)

“NO LONGER” isn’t necessarily accurate. The new rotor probably has to be cleaned of an anti-corrosion coating, and the wheel hub should be cleaned of any surface rust. That stuff takes time.

Brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air whether or not the car is driven. Brake fluid flushing is better done on the basis of time rather than mileage. Every 2-3 years is the typical recommendation.

both Gary T have told you to get a professional to look at it. That is the solution. You may not like it but it is the solution.

Yes you should have. Speaking for myself I left my crystal ball in my other pants.

As I explained that buying your own parts may not happen

Ask around. Talk to your friends. Get a referral.

go back and read Gary T’s post that’s not how it works in the real world.
http://youtu.be/lJ0yD-9CDwI.
More important things? Out of morbid curiosity I have to ask what do you consider to me more important that keeping your brakes from failing and running over a crosswalk full of kids? Or totaling you car against a brick wall and having no way to get to work?

Anyone that says it takes no longer to change the rotors is either lying, does not know what they are talking about, or are an idiot (pick one or more). In some cases it only takes a little longer, on other cars substantially longer, but the point is it takes longer. Of this there is no doubt.

Several car makers recommend a flush every 3 years.

The best advice I can give is have the brakes evaluated by a competent and honorable shop. As an aid in finding one, here’s a post I wrote 12 years ago:

Dealerships generally do good work. They have factory training, factory tools, factory information, and top quality parts in-house. On the downside, they tend to have high prices (though not always the highest), and they often have a manner that puts many people off. Certainly some are better than others, but if you feel comfortable with a particular dealer, I have no reason to advise against using them.

I don’t care for the chain operations. They often have entry-level help, and I believe they train their people to sell rather than to develop good mechanical judgment. While they typically advertise very attractive prices, probably less than 5% of customers who go in for, say, a 79.95 brake job leave having only spent that much. Often their prices for the upsold services are pretty high. There are some good individual stores out there, but in general the best quality and the best value is not found at the chains.

Independent shops run the gamut from large to small, excellent to lousy. The very best of all types of shops are the top-notch independents. The very worst are the scum independents. The good ones tend to offer more personalized service than the dealerships and more competent service than the chains. For many people, developing a relationship with a high-quality independent shop yields the best overall value and the least hassle in servicing their cars.

How to find a good shop? Use a multi-pronged approach. The first thing is to check their reputation. Customers are the most obvious source. Just be aware that some people may be delighted with a shop that’s scamming them some, and some may deride a good shop that they simply didn’t click with. Another avenue is to check industry sources. Ask at parts stores that deal with the shops. See if you can find a tool wagon-vendor (Snap-On, Mac, etc.) on his route. Check with a specialty shop (e.g. auto electric). These people have an insider’s perspective, and usually know which are the good shops and which are best avoided.

Look for mechanics’ certification. This is through an organization called ASE (Auto Service Excellence). They provide written tests which, while not perfect, pretty well identify those who know what they’re talking about. Don’t just look for the logo, but go inside and look at each individual’s certificate. There are eight areas of testing in general auto repair, but a person who passes just one test can wear the patches and be called certified. And a shop with just one certified mechanic can display the ASE logo. Ideally, all personnel at the shop will be certified Master Technicians (passed all eight tests).

Look for training and seminar certificates. To be proficient on modern cars requires a fair amount of ongoing learning. While intentional fraud makes great TV exposes, it is actually rather rare–most problems with auto repair are rooted in lack of competence, and unwillingness to own up to it. A high level of expertise is a good thing.

Look for membership in trade associations. Different ones are strong in different parts of the country, but three I’m aware of are ASA (Auto Service Association) and ASP (Auto Service Professionals) for general repair, and ATRA (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association) for transmission repair. Belonging to an association usually indicates an interest in the reputation of one’s field and the welfare of one’s customers.

Use your “people skills,” along with the shop’s reputation, to assess their honesty and integrity. Most of us have a feel for when people are being straight with us. If you’re young and still developing these skills, have a more experienced friend or relative go along and counsel.

Satisfy yourself that there is a good rapport between you and whomever you’re dealing with (this might be a manager rather than a mechanic–that’s OK). If you ask a question, you should get an answer that is useful to you. It may take a few tries to effectively communicate, but they (and you) should be trying to make it work.

Don’t focus on price. We all want to be good consumers, and it’s great to get a bargain. But most of the time, you get what you pay for. Good service is supported by top-flight help, comprehensive information resources, study and training, and special equipment. These things cost money, which has to be reflected in a shop’s prices. I wouldn’t necessarily make a point of going to the most expensive shop in town, but I’d be downright scared to go to the cheapest one.

Great post Gary. I always enjoy the posts provided by you and Rick. Not to sound like your English teacher but they are always well-written and very informative.

You are correct Gary T writes a hell of a post. His post above about finding a shop is a classic.

Ya, a lot of my compensation is ‘love of the game.’ I just like the opportunity to commune with a car and fix something. Brakes for friends = free. Brakes for others (friends of friends) $15/wheel + parts includes disassembling and re-greasing the calipers.

Except drum brakes. For some reason I just don’t understand how the things go together, and there’s always something broken in there that I can’t identify. I know it’s a stupid failing, but if there’s drums, then the deal’s off. Timing belt? Head gasket? Exhaust system? No problem. Drum brakes? Nah.

You need to read the advice the professionals here have been kind enough to give you, and then take it.