How hard is a brake job to do on a pontiac sunfire?

In My Humble Opinion
1

So this kid that lives near me has a fair amount of mechanical experience and changed my fuel filter for me on my 03 sunfire for about 10 bucks.

I watched him do it and my car is running excellent. It would’ve costed me about 65 bucks at goodyear or a shop. And it’s realistically about a 10-15 minute job max.

But, i believe i might need a brake job soon, and that’s a bit more intensive.

However, i have no knowledge on vehicles, parts, etc.

He seems like a super nice guy and has the attitude of “if i can do it for cheap, i’m still making money.” which equates to me saving TONS of money.

However, is this type of job on this vehicle a job some kid with basic auto experience could do? He said it’d be no problem and about 25 bucks or so for each pad and then 25 for each tire. So for a whole brake job on my whole vehicle with new pads would be 200$ total. Maybe a bit less.

2

$200 isn’t all that cheap for a straight pad replacement.
Call around a few shops and ask for prices.
What if he does it wrong and there is an accident? He for sure does not have liability insurance. Are you willing to accept the risk?
Is he trained /experienced enough to recognize a potentially dangerous condition on your car?

3

I’ve called around and the labor rates are insane.

Most places don’t go by the half hour either and a lot of places will try to stall out the job and take longer.

He already did my fuel filter and everything so far is 100% ok and there seems to be no issues.

He said he was certified in suspension and brakes.

How is 200$ not cheap for all 4 brake pads labor and replacement? He said i’d HAVE to pay for the pads and those cost 25$ each. standard. then he’s charging me 25 for each pad. How much do shops charge per pad? 30?

4

Well when I was a service manager at a Hyundai dealership (you know THE dealership, the guys that have the reputation of being the most expensive place in town to fix a car) I sold front or rear brake pad replacement and turn the rotors for $199.95. That’s a nickel less, we turned the rotors and used factory parts. That by the way is in Southern California. In Bumfuck Egypt I would expect this number to be less.

Pads are sold by the set, not by each BTW. Here they range from $20.00-$52.00 for the set. Over here they run from $15-$54. Again for the set.
So what quality level of pads is this guy using? The $15 compressed crap specials that make a squeal that that can be heard 2 blocks away?

Like I said $200 for a pad slap is not a bargain.

Does this guy even own a micrometer to measure if your rotors are serviceable?

When you call around don’t ask about the labor rate per hour ask the shop how much to replace front brake pads on your car and what does that include. Trust me there is no incentive to drag the job out longer than it takes.

Finally certified? By who?

5

I take it that the rear brakes are discs? if so, changing the pads is a snap-anybody with reasonable ability can do it. If the rotors are OK (no scoring or excessive runout) you should be fine. A good mechanic can do such a job in less than 2 hours. Your friend will take a bit longer 9unless he has access to a lift).

6

the car is a pontiac sunfire 2003. that tells you what type of brakes it uses.

7

uh bump and help?

8

FWIW I had my cousin, a mechanic of 15 years or so, replace the rotors on my front wheels of my Escape last month. He has a pneumatic wrench at his house, and it took him 20 mins total right there in his driveway. I was blown away!

I know it was rotors and not pads (which I think are easier than pads?) but I just wanted to give you an idea of how quickly someone with the right tools and skill can take apart a wheel and put it back together. Which, with rotors at least, is most of the labor involved.

9

Basic Disc Brakes are pretty simple, but a few things to consider.

Brakes are a safety device. If they do not operate properly when you need them, it is a bigger problem than if your fuel filter doesn’t.

If this is an 03 Sunfire, I’d take it as a given that it has had the pads replaced at least once before. The calipers and rotors are probably original. After 12 years, they may be excessively worn, maybe not, but is this guy going to be able to tell? Yes, replacing the pads is pretty easy, but dealing with a stuck caliper can be more involved and, with just replacing the pads, he may not notice a stuck caliper. Do you think you could? If you don’t think you could diagnose a stuck caliper on your own, take it to a professional. Driving with a stuck caliper may not make you wreck, but it will cause the brake system to fail in quick order.

Again, with an 03 Sunfire, the brake fluid will need to be flushed. This is a two person job. Yes, it can be done by a single person, but it just a lot easier if two people are involved.

How long do you intend to keep the vehicle. If you plan on selling it in the next few months, then you may be OK (it will be the new owner’s problem). Otherwise, it is going to be much cheaper in the long run to take it to a qualified shop (think ASE certification). If you talk to them saying you want them to check the calipers, check the rotors, flush the brake fluid, and replace the pads, and get them to quote a price, and if this is less than twice what you expect to pay “this kid who lives near me”, pay the higher price, it will be cheaper in 12 months.

10

Your fronts are disks and the rears are drum.

If the car has not been abused you might get away with just front pads for $25 + labor.

For really nice feeling brakes you could install new front disk rotors for $50 + $25 Pads.

If he does the rear brakes, new rear brake shoes are ~$75. They probably don’t need it - the front brakes do most of the work. BUT - if the rear brakes are really worn the brake drums should be turned (made round and smooth) ($20 x 2) or replaced ($30-50 x 2).

Replacing the front pads and rear shoes for $200 total is a deal. Disassembling rear brakes can be a hassle. But the rears are probably OK.

If you have any concern about the smoothness of your brakes I recommend replacing the front rotors and pads and leaving the rears alone unless the rears are making noise. Adding rotors to the process takes no more time and the job take maybe 90 minutes with manual tools in your driveway. Add the rear drums and the job could be 2.5 - 3 hours. Use your own judgement about what you’re paying for his labor.

Look into Advance Auto Parts online coupon codes and ordering. With the right $$ thresholds (add in some oil or windshield wash, etc. to get to the threshold) you can save 30 - 40% from their counter price.

You’re going to get warnings about BRAKES!! - USE TOP GRADE PARTS :eek: and GO TO YOUR DEALER!! but I’ve done my own work and kept older cars going for 40 years with this philosophy. Now if you’re autocrossing your Sunfire…:smiley:

11

$200 seems excessive to me for a shade tree mechanic. IMO, buy the parts yourself and off him $100, I think that seems fair (assuming the rotors don’t need to be turned).

With all due respect to Rick regarding them being safety equipment, IMO, brakes are easy, they’re (again, IMO) the next step up from doing you’re own oil changed. More involved, more time consuming, but with someone over your shoulder that’s done it before and can guide you through the common pitfalls, a simple swap of the pads is an easy job.

FTR, I’ve never done rear disc breaks so I don’t know if anything special needs to be done WRT to the parking break. But front breaks are, well, not a breeze, but their a good transition from “I do my own oil changes” to “I work on my own car”.

The $65 dollar fuel filter change by an actual mechanic sounds really cheap to me, maybe have them quote you on the brakes.

12

Ask your buddy exactly what he plans to replace and consider my posted costs.

Again, if your brakes are working OK - never experiencing 1-wheel lockup on wet streets, no squeeks or grinding noises…front rotors and pads are my recommendation. You could easily spend $500 on PARTS to make the system factory new but you don’t need it.

Disk calipers don’t routinely lock up with age - I have two 1997 vehicles with originals. And you can get by fine without bleeding them - but it is a good idea - add $5 for brake fluid and 1/2 of labor.

13

So what are the main things recommended guys? Front pads and rotors?

I can give more info.

It’s a 03 pontiac sunfire.

Original miles (checked through a couple sites) and it has about 74k miles.

I hear a high pitched screek that sounds like nails against a chalkboard when i’m reversing and i brake. It sounds like it’s coming from the back. Like i said this is most common when i REVERSE and brake.

Also, when going forward and braking sometimes once i get to about 15-10 (on a highway from going 50, lets say theres a stop light) my car starts to kinda shake when i’m breaking. Like bounce up and down a bit as if i was running over small bumps. It’s only noticeable to me, the driver.

14

Are you going to be keeping this car or just want to get a short, quick fix? That is the question. If you just want to get by for awhile your plan may work. If you plan to keep the car, expect it to be safe and dependable for a long time, it won’t work.

Paying someone to slap new pads on is not a complete brake job for a 12 year old car. And at 74k miles I am assuming that this is the original brake equipment on the car, never been changed.

New or rebuilt brake calipers all around, all 4 if discs or 2 calipers for the front discs and cylinders for the rear drums. Disc brakes have pistons that push the pads against the rotors. When you change the pads you have to push these pistons back into the caliper to accommodate the thickness of the new pads. The pistons are probably pitted or rusted, and when you push them back into the calipers this old, pitted part of the piston goes back into the fluid bearing part and you are going to get a brake fluid leak and failure. There are also slide pins that the 2 halves of the caliper slide on when the pistons move. These often get stuck, they need to be lubed and cleaned. The rubber boots protecting the pistons get cracked and allow dirt and moisture inside. The best solution is new or newly rebuilt calipers.

The cylinders that activate the rear drums are simpler, and fairly cheap, but you want to replace them too. Same issue, they will leak, may fail causing loss of brake pressure and a very bad day.

Then there is the rotors and/or drums. I side with the recommendations not to turn or shave these down. It just makes them thinner and weaker. If they are still within tolerance they can be reused and the pads will adjust to the minor ridges and groves. You are already hearing screeching noises. They probably are not reusable. New ones needed, although it may just be the wear indicator tabs causing the noise. These tabs warn you that you are about to damage the discs but haven’t yet. Attention needed soon.

You probably have 12 year old brake fluid in the system too. Brake fluid does not cycle through the system. The stuff nearest the calipers or cylinders gets dirty and absorbs moisture. Your brake change will bleed most of that old dirty shit out of there when he bleeds the brake lines after install. A better, just as cheap, solution is to change out ALL of the fluid. One guy with a hand held vacuum pump can do this easily. Most shops would do this as a routine I think.

The brake lines also need to be inspected for cracks and wear.

Many of the things I have said are the same thing that you will hear when you take it to the shop for an estimate. And you will think that they are just padding the bill, selling you services that you do not need, etc. No, they are telling you what a full brake job entails. Of course they could still be trying to screw you, but knowledge is power, understand what needs to be done and you will probably find that taking it to a good shop for a full brake job is cheaper and a better investment.

15

So why do shops charge more for parts when they can probably get them at a discounted price right?

16

My car squeaks in the BACK when i’m reversing and pressing on the brakes.

What is that on my car?

17

Because they can. Parts are typically marked up at least 50% over RETAIL. So with volume discounts they probably make 100% profit.

Drum brakes have a mechanism that adjusts the clearance between the friction material (brake shoe) and the rotating part (brake drum) that is activated by braking in reverse. Your shoes are probably worn out to where this has reached its limit of adjustment. Hopefully the squeak isn’t metal on metal and it hasn’t damaged the drums.

Cause your BRAKES are broke - They’ve been BREAKING for some time. Your front rotors are no longer flat smooth disks but have worn to have waves in them which is what you’re feeling. Maybe the rear drums too.

So you’re into around $200 in parts minimum and I don’t think your guy planned on this much work. How long do you plan to keep the car? At 74K miles it should be good for at least another 100K with proper maintenance.

18

My son recently did the brakes on my car and it cost me a ton more… Food, housing, gas, insurance, college, etc. :smiley:

If it is just the pads it really isn’t that hard, but borrow a tool from the auto parts store to compress the cylinders and it will make it a lot easier. An extra set of hands also helps a lot.

Ok, I just saw that you have drums in the back. I really don’t know how tough those are to do.

19

How about you look up coupon codes for Advance and Rockauto (mailorder but cheaper and better quality is available for $$). Price: front brake rotors and pads, rear brake shoes and brake drums, a quart of brake fluid, a can of brake cleaner, and a Mity-Vac hand vacuum pump for 1-person brake bleeding. Then ask what he’ll charge for the work. You do an online order for the parts.

  • Your brakes will feel like new.
  • He should be delighted to have all these clean new parts to install!
  • Make him a deal on the pump - they’re good for several mechanic things.
20

Most quality shops shy away from the discounted parts. Why? Because they don’t get paid to handle customer complaints and if they have been in business long enough to achieve a quality reputation, they have learned that discounted parts often result in more customer complaints.

This is the reason most shops do not like to install customer-supplied parts. They have no idea what the quality level of the parts are and if the customer has issues with the job (due to low quality parts), he is likely to blame the mechanic, anyway.

The shop is also going to mark-up their parts. This is also understandable. If they are going to stock parts to have on hand, that ties up capital as well represents a significant investment. The shop should be rewarded for supplying the capital and taking the investment risk.