Nor of churches. Nevertheless, some churches, some times, do behave in the way I described, i.e., in a more overbearing and inescapable and tyrannical way than any mere (non-ideological) state despotism ever would even think of desiring; and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and its progeny-parties copied all that pretty precisely.
And not they alone, of course. The Nazis were that way only more so, and unhindered even by the pretense of a conscience.
I’m not sure I would see Communism as a religion in and of itself, but taking the Soviet Union as an example (not least because I don’t know a vast amount about China, for example) it’s a lot easier to make the argument that Stalinism was a religion - the total, fervent belief in the leader is amazing to see. But when we get to Brezhnev, on the other hand, that focus doesn’t exist.
Yes. North Korea uses leader worship too.
Well, that’s rather a special case . . . They’ve tried to keep it a secret, but Kim Jong-il really is a god. Unfortunately, he’s a peculiar sort, who can’t be worshipped without lots and lots of fasting. What, you don’t think the North Koreans have their economic system just because they’re stupid, do you?
It’s faith based like psychic powers or orgone energy or morphogenetic fields or other pseudosciences. It “justifies” its claims by flatly stating them and trying to twist evidence to fit them, or simply claiming that the lack of or outright contradictory evidence is due to a capitalist plot. Just like religion; just substitute “Satan” or “unbeliever” for “capitalist”.
It claims to be scientific, but it isn’t even close.
:dubious:
I take it that you have not ever heard about the supernatural feats of the “dear leader” of North Korea? 
It’s a religion in the same way that Atheism is a religion. If it walks like it’s not a duck, and quacks like it’s not a duck, and gets pissed off if you call it a duck, it’s a duck. Because if you’re not a duck, you wouldn’t act like you weren’t one or care if someone said you were.
“Bolshevism is not merely a political doctrine; it is also a religion, with elaborate dogmas and inspired scriptures. When Lenin wishes to prove some proposition, he does so, if possible, by quoting texts from Marx and Engels. A full-fledged Communist is not merely a man who believes that land and capital should be held in common, and their produce distributed as nearly equally as possible. He is a man who entertains a number of elaborate and dogmatic beliefs–such as philosophic materialism, for example–which may be true, but are not, to a scientific temper, capable of being known to be true with any certainty. This habit, of militant certainty about objectively doubtful matters, is one from which, since the Renaissance, the world has been gradually emerging, into that temper of constructive and fruitful scepticism which constitutes the scientific outlook.”
– Bertrand Russell, The Practice and Theory of Bolshevism (1920)
Nonsense. Atheism isn’t like Communism/religion at all. It fits the facts, it doesn’t make any claims beyond disbelief in one particular category of supernatural creature. Atheism has no dogma, no agenda. It’s not a belief system.
The two aren’t comparable at all.
your comparison really wasn’t valid. Atheism contains no religious characteristics, mostly because it contains no beliefs.
Where did my post mention beliefs or dogma or the supernatural or agenda?
I stated what I consider the hallmarks of a religion. If you disagree, fine. But my comparison was perfectly valiid. Atheists and Communists both claim not to be religions and bristle when referred to as such.
Atheism contaains no hallmarks of religion. Claiming not to be a religion is not a hallmark of religion.
Dammit, BrainGlutton beat me to a Russell quote. Mine is different though:
“A History of Western Philosophy” (1945), Book II, Chapter IV, section II
I think it’s important to differentiate between two related but different meanings of “communism”. One is strictly an economic theory. The other is a set of beliefs and ideology which includes, but is by no means limited to, an economic theory. The first is definitely not a religion. The second is extremely similar to a religion in many respects. Whether or not one calls it a religion is just a matter of definitional temperament.
“The Catholic and the Communist are alike in assuming that an opponent cannot be both honest and intelligent.”
– George Orwell
Practically speaking, in the US, the Communist Party would not get tax exempt status like religions do because it’s an action organization. So there’s one difference.
It seems ironic to me that when atheism was compared to religion a fairly strict interpretation was called for, but cherry picking and doubtful stretches are better accepted in this discussion. Sure, some people probably did use, say, Stalinism, as a religion or religion substitute (it’s not called a cult of personality for nothing). Some people also seem to me to use dope, sex, or football as a religion or religion substitute. Also, let’s note that Stalin did not consider religion intolerable when things got dicey, and not only for reasons of morale.
Why it would be desirable to confuse an economic theory or political philosophy with a religion? In the case of an atheist like Russell, perhaps because Marxists give atheism a bad name. I wonder if he would appreciate that both he and Lenin are listed in the Wikipedia entry for antireligion.
I’m sure he would.
No less an authority than Beria himself called Stalin “a quasi Islamic” about his fanatical belief in Marxism. Also, during the great purge Stalin referred to the thousands who were shot as having “lost faith” in the party.
That’s as may be, but I fail to see how it makes Communism a religion, especially when one considers that some Communistsfind their economics compatible with religion. Perhaps a more persuasive argument can be made that one of the brands of Communism, such as Leninism or Stalinism, was a sort of religion for some people.
While looking for information, I was amused to find a quote similar to something I had just read:
I figure I could write something similar about (for instance) the Republican party if I wanted. Or the company I work for. Or this message board:
If we disregard its supposed atheism for a moment, the Straight Dope Message Board has all the trappings of an organized religion: its messiahs and saints–Adams and Zotti; its sacred scriptures–the writings of these men; a band of apostles and prophets–the Advisory Board and Moderators; an elect group– Midwestern nerds who really like Buffy the Vampire Slayer; sin–defined as under-tipping; conversion–marked by the consumption of Bacon Salt; and above all faith–that complete trust one must have in the truth of the Straight Dope’s holy dogmas.
Very easy, very silly.
The source of the quote was the Middletown Bible Church’s website. What made their little quiz extra amusing to me was how they used dozens of Biblical cites to support the claim that God hates teh commies while studiously ignoring the Book of Acts.