“Want” is spelled “w-a-n-t” not “n-e-e-d”.
I need one Evil Captor. That’s spelled “N-E-E-D”. I don’t really care what you need.
Off to Great Debates.
Here’s a few points:
I’ll use the generic term Oversized Vehicle (OV) to indicate SUV’s, Pickups, and Trailer Trucks of all lengths and shapes.
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Your visibility around an OV increases the farther you are from them. From a visibility standpoint, it is best in fact to drive in front of OV’s whenever possible.
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In most cities, in medium-to-heavy traffic, it is nearly impossible to maintain assured clear distance from the vehicle in front of you, as this space is often quickly filled up by inconsiderate drivers who view your buffer space an opening in traffic. This behavior creates a propensity for people to follow too closely. Nobody wants some jackass squeezing into their lane in front of them.
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Smaller passenger cars typically brake much faster (60-0 distance) and are able to make faster emergency lane change maneuvers than OV’s.
Given the above information, I can say unequivocally that the driving landscape has changed over the last 15 years or so. There are more vehicles on the road for sure, but a larger percentage of them fall into what I loosely categorize as Oversized Vehicles. This increase in traffic volume means that we are spending more and more time in medium-to-heavy traffic, and thus more and more time “walled in” by OV’s.
It seems simple to me to see that in these conditions, that if the average height of vehicles has increased than the average visibility (however that is determined) for a driver has gone down.
If the solution for the small car driver is in driving behavior (stay away from the OV’s), then the small car driver needs the cooperation of every other driver on the road.
Every driver needs to maintain assured clear distance from the vehicles in front of them. Every driver needs to not interfere with their fellow drivers’ buffers by merging into an “opening” for the sake of convenience. OV drivers need to be aware that their assured clear distance needs to be greater in most cases than that of a typical passenger car.
In theory it’ll work, but never in the real world where we’re a bunch of selfish, opportunistic, needlessly hasty pricks that get away with violating rules of common courtesy on the road that would never fly if we were all queued up in a grocery store line.
This is all a behavior problem, really.
The Matrix is not a compact car. It’s a mid-size station wagon. It’s a very small wagon, but it’s a wagon.
It’s a tractor. That’s how much it can plow on a gallon.
He’s right about the average car getting shorter. Frankly, I always saw the SUV as a return to the classic 40s sedan size and shape.
The gentleman with the OP is not bitching about SUVs. He is bitching about cars taller than normal. Such as the Toyota Corolla Matrix, at 61" tall, and… no such car as the Ford Echo.
Toyota Echo? 59.4 inches tall
The Ford Taurus is 56.1 inches tall.
The Ford Focus is 57.5 inches tall.
The Ford Explorer is 72.8 inches tall.
The Ford Excursion is 80.2 inches tall.
Wheelbase on a 40s sedan is easy to find, but height is a bit harder. Hm.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/toyota/matrix/100579330/specs.html?tid=edmunds.n.researchlanding.leftsidenav..8.Toyota*
Interesting observation. I wonder how much griping there would be if there were a proliferation of those old sedans rather than of so-readily-castigated SUV’s.
You crazy, man? Those things are deathboxes. You used to chuck 'em out when they got 50,000 miles on them. Sometimes when they had 30,000. The tires were horrid, the sheer overhang of the body meant that the wheelbase wasn’t exactly related to the length of the car, nothing but drum brakes… if you were lucky. Mechanicals if you weren’t. Heck, I bet half the people on the road… couldn’t… even… deal with a choke.
You know, I’m beginning to like this idea. Let’s do it, but give me warning so I can stay home for a week. After the carnage is over, it’ll be clear sailing for me!
Well, apparently the vehicle roof height of 1950 Chevrolet passenger car models (under load) ranged from nearly 62 inches to nearly 67 inches.
So while that’s taller than the average sedan of today, it isn’t really comparable to the modern behemoth SUVs.
My issue is that SUV’s (since they are technically light trucks) are allowed to have factory installed tinted windows, while cars are not. I think if you really pay attention you will find:
1 - most of that extra view comes from looking through the windows of a car.
2 - that extra view is partially due to the tinted windows of most SUV’s/
I think essentially all the problems with SUVs stem from the fact that they’re actually light trucks, but are classified and regulated as passenger cars. I have no problem with anybody owning an SUV who wants one (though I reserve the right to laugh at them privately if I think their reasons for wanting one are silly), but let’s call a truck a truck.
Nice find, Kimstu! Where’d you know to look that up from?
2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee, the classic SUV. 70.3 inches.
Hummer H3 73.7 inches
BMW X5 67.2 inches
1992 Jeep Grand Cherokee… 64.9 inches.
So, among the midsize SUVs, which are approximately equivalent to a sedan… they’ve been getting bigger, but they do tend to be just-around to just taller than a '50s Sedan, and they do have much greater ground clearance, so you can knock about three inches off that height.
The big 'uns, I won’t defend, except to say, if you need one, use it. If you don’t need one, I wish you much experience of the myriad inconviences driving a portable city block will afford you.
But the ‘normal’ ones do tend to bear my theory out.
Oh, and they were light trucks. But not even the Jeep is a ladder frame chassis anymore, Kimstu. They’re entirely different beasts now. This simply means that they’re even more deserving of falling under car regulations. I’m all for that.
Just Googluck. Searched on “dimensions 1950’s cars” and found “1950 Chevrolet Specifications for Passenger Cars” third hit down.
And you’re right, I got it backwards: they are being marketed as passenger cars but officially classified as light trucks, which is why the standards aren’t as rigorous.
Furthermore, it isn’t just the overall height of the SUV design that’s a problem but the increased height it rides off the ground, producing not just the dangerous “bumper mismatch” in collisions with regular cars but also the increased height of the windows. As kanicbird noted, a lot of visibility comes from seeing through the car in front of you, not just over it, and that doesn’t work as well if its windshield and rear window are much higher up than yours.
I’m pretty sure that the 2005-06 Grand jeep is still a ladder frame. The '02 is. They did go to IFS though. Too bad.
Hmmm. I guess if it’s IFS it’s not a classic ladder frame. Still, I don’t think they could be called a uni-body. Gonna have to crawl around under one again.
Scares the shit out of the owners when I pop out though. 
MY delivering magazines to stores puts my little Ranger onto the same streets and into the same parking lots and loading zones at the same times as the bread, milk, pop, and beer vans.
I have no problem with that. I don’t understand those who do have problems with sharing the roads with taller vehicles.
It’s the same problem I have with forgetting to remove the sun shield when I drive. I need to see the yellow traffic signals, the Springfield This Exit sign, and the kid who is about to dart out from between two cars just ahead of me.
And just how does the taller vehicle a recommended 2 seconds in front of you prevent you from seeing the kid about to dart out from between two cars just ahead of you? You’ve lost me there.
You seem to me to be an habitual tailgater who drives way too fast for conditions if you’re having all of these troubles seeing around tall vehicles.
Delivery vehicles have always been somewhat taller than cars. Get rid of all of the vehicles taller than yours which you deem frivolous and unnecessary and you’ll still have problems with the necessary commercial vehicles if you don’t change your driving habits or hire a chauffeur.
You’re forgetting a couple of things that have been stated repeatedly here.
- People are not objecting to delivery and other commercial vehicles.
- You can’t always maintain a 2-second distance in heavy traffic; if you do, somebody cuts in front of you, probably with yet another SUV, and you are right back where you started from.