First off, yes, Montreal does indeed have an extremely large number of beautiful women. (It gives the rest of us inferitority complexes )
Now, for more seriousl differences I have noted: I think someone touched on this before, but I’ve noticed (mostly on this message board, actually) the differences in patriotic philosophy.
I have heard people here say countless times: “I don’t like what he’s saying, but I will defend to his death the right to say it.” Well you know what? I wouldn’t. Not only would I not die for that cause, I believe some people should be censored.
The outpouring of patriotism after 9/11 also struck me. Americans show patriotism by talking about it, showing flags, believing that they are the best country and are glad they live there. On the other hand, after Canada won the gold medal hockey games this Olympics (both men and women!) our patriotism (and there was a lot, I assure you) was more leaning towards just that we are a group of cool people, and we’re proud of ourselves.
The emphasis of patriotism in the US seems to be the constitution, and we really don’t have a similar document where we could all cite amendments. And we’re not as much a military country. We’re proud of the way we live, our multiculturalism, our superior beer and food and less so our government’s ideals.
I’ve been to Montreal, once, for a few hours before taking a flight down to Cuba. It was nice for the most part. The highway was lined with streetlights! Beat that USA! And you have different shapes for your traffic lights. Cute. I’m not sure why, though.
In all seriousness, I want to live in Canada someday. I’m not sure what kind of reason I could come up with, though. Maybe I’ll look for colleges in Canada. That would be cool. See, the Canadians I’ve known have all been nice, laidback people. And something about Canada is just… appealing. Would I stay in Canada for life? I doubt it, especially since I haven’t had the experience. But staying for awhile would probably be an interesting experience.
The closest province is Quebec, but I don’t speak French. There’s southeast Ontario not too far to the West, however. What’s the Canadian opinion of Ottawa?
I find it interesting that you picked Boston as the part of the US to compare Canada to: in a Prayer for Owen Meany, John Irving claims that New Englanders have more in common with Canadians than New Yorkers. From my limited visits to parts of NY and Canada, I’d say that on the surface, at least, he’s got a point. Canada looked a lot more like home. Had I stayed longer in Canada during my visits, I’m sure I’d have found more differences than I did, though.
But what about Maple syrup? Everyone I ever met who put it on french fries was of French-Canadian decent…
Of course it varies with the person, but for starters refer to featherlou’s excellent points on East and West.
As far as the city itself goes, I really have no idea. I’ve always thought of it as smaller and less ‘cosmopolitan’ than Toronto or Montreal, but still a “real city” as opposed to what we call cities out here in the boondocks in the West (15,000 pop. gets the title here I think?).
According to Canadian Bacon, a hilarious movie by the way, most Americans are convinced that Toronto is our capital city.
It’s hard to give a cite for a nonexistent thing. You do not pay inheritance tax to the federal government in Canada. I am unaware of any province that levies an inheritance tax, although I’m sure a few do (but not 50%.) The estate would have to pay any back taxes, of course.
Ontarians don’t really know what poutine is, either. They make it with grated, marbled cheddar. Blech. Usually one of the first meals I eat when I go home to Quebec is a real poutine. I’ve even had it in Drummondville, at the place where it was invented! REALLY yummy!
I should point out for those who don’t know that “fries, cheese, and gravy” is not poutine. Poutine is properly made with fries, cheese curds, and chicken or beef gravy.
First off, nobody anywhere says “oot”, ya goddamn Yank We all talk like Peter Jennings.
Well, I grew up in Quebec, which means I got out of high school at the mature age of 16. So everyone in a John Hughes film looks incredibly old, and still acts way more immature than anyone I knew ever did. I mean, you’ve got guys owning cars and they still act like goofballs who have never been laid. What’s up with that?
High school is something to endure and then never think of again. We don’t have football teams. We don’t have big, 30-year-long rivalries with the teams from other schools. Our high school grad is big, but nowhere near as large a deal as it is down south.
Nobody’s gonna plan a contract killing to get on the cheerleading squad. In fact, the first time I saw a cheerleader was on a trip to South Carolina (and my friend was the coach <shudder>).
Homecoming? We don’t have it. I don’t even know if my high school has reunions. Well, actually, they do, but not one member of my family has ever got an invite, and I don’t know anyone in my age group who has actually been to one.
Thirdly, we export bozos. It’s got it’s own chapter in NAFTA. Speaking of which, Canadians get pissed off when our govt hands over subsidies to business. Americans I know tend to like this behaviour, while getting outraged when other nations subsidize business.
And as for guns, we’re so safe that we don’t need them. Maybe we know something about dealing with criminals that the US doesn’t…
Hmm. I feel compelled to also repeat that Canadians recognize slapping a tarriff on imports is likely to hurt consumers more than anything else. It’s also not very fair.
For me a significant difference is that the USA has so many more people than Canada. In gross terms, we are about the same size physically (if you include Alaska), but the USA has almost 250 million more people. That’s a lot of people.
When I travel in the USA, I enjoy its cities. It has so many of them! But at the same time, I really miss the open land. Everything in the lower 48 of the USA is so hemmed in with so many people and so many fences. The lower 48 has occasional patches of wilderness, but they are small and few and far between. Much of Canada, however, has occasional patches of people, mostly within an hour or two of the Canada USA border (and 85% within 300 km), and most of Canada has no people at all.
There are a lot of differences between Canada and the United States. They are subtle. If your Canadian friends were offended by your question, it is probably defensive since they were upset they could not articulate these differences, which are manifold and usually mis-stated.
Canadians like to see themselves as polite, friendly and knowledgable about other countries and world affairs. Canadians like to see Americans as self-interested, ignorant, judgemental and with a tendency to support extreme positions on things like gun control, religion or crime.
In my experience, Americans are at least as friendly as Canadians. Canadians are more reserved, more likely to use polite phrases, less likely to make superficial comments or conversation and are probably more clique-y than Americans. Canadians, even in big cities, help out people in need. This is certainly true of Americans outside of the bigger cities and true of many people in the biggest American cities. Is it friendlier to say a loud “Good day” to everyone and not mean it? I’m not sure. On a social level, Americans seem more inclusive but less sincere.
Canadians have lots of access to world news, but I’m not sure Canadians on the whole are that much more worldly than Americans despite their good intentions. Canada has a great many immigrants (including 2/3 of Toronto, more than any North American city). Most Canadians see our approach to immigration as being tolerant of other cultures because they do not force “being Canadian” down the throats of citizens. Most Canadians would think immigrants to the US are required to give up their cultural identity to become an American. This is not true. But racial tensions in Toronto are very low.
Here are the real differences.
Egalitarianism
Most Canadians are offended by the American tendency to describe their policies as “socialist”, and rightly so. But providing health care access to all people is seen as a basic duty of government which benefits everyone and “the right thing to do”. Canadians see giving everyone a shot at higher education as very important. Some degree of income redistribution is seen as desirable because Canadians place high value on fairness, and feel the country as a whole benefits if citizens are healthier and better educated. In the US, health care is not always seen as a right and equal access to education is not realized to the same extent. People who are wealthy in Canada generally do not flaunt their wealth. Thrift is an important Canadian value; both millionaires and working stiffs always expect value for money.
2. Extreme Positions
Canada has a lot of religious people – Sundays are very closely observed here in the Maritimes. But they don’t bring religion up as a spontaneous conversational topic. A leading Canadian politician stated his believe that the world is 6000 years old and the papers still make fun of him. Religious people in Canada don’t make a big deal about Creationism in schools. Making a big deal is not the Canadian way. Similarly, people have balanced opinions about complicated topics. America, for better or worse, is largely defined by the extreme positions a minority of people take. This is most pronounced with laws like “three strikes and you’re out” which strikes Canadians as grossly unfair. Canadians judge situations on their own merits and consider American positions on capital punishment, law, foreign policy (e.g. Cuba) very extreme – and rightly so. Americans have strong beliefs about these issues and rarely seem to acknowledge opposing arguments. Politics in particular is reduced to absurd black and white positions.
3. Self-Identity
Canadians who visit other countries generally make an effort to learn some phrases of the local language. I don’t know if this works, but it is done for the right reasons – out of respect for other cultures. Americans seem to have less respect for other cultures and many seem to hold that American culture is superior to others. Canadians hold this view less often. Canadians are very modest about their achievements and do not like to call attention to themselves, even if this means putting up with needless minor inconveniences. But make no mistake – Nothing describes Canadians more accurately than “value ofr money” and they will make a big fuss if they have to. Canadians HATE to impose on other people, and I do think they are more considerate of others than many Americans. They also have less self-confidence. Canadians are arrogant about their modesty but not their success.
The above are obvious generalizations and I think Americans in Maine, other border States, and the Midwest are not that different from many Canadians. But no one is more Canadian than a Canadian travelling in the United States, if you know what I mean.
I remember reading an interview with Michael Stipe where he raved about the health care in Canada. He said he was in BC and had to visit a doctor. The receptionist told him his treatment was going to be expensive because he didn’t have insurance. He asked how much and the woman told him something like $50 CAN. He was amazed because it would have cost way more than that in the the US.
My question is this: In US, a lot is made of the Bill of Rights–freedom of speech, press, religion, legal rights such as search and seizure protection, etc. I know Canada is much more restrictive of guns. What about other civil rights? How are they spelled out in Canada? Is there a Canadian equivalent to the American Civil Liberties Union? A group that wants the strict gun laws repealed?
Canada has the Charter of Rights. It’s available here. http://canada.justice.gc.ca/loireg/charte/const_en.html
We have a Civil Liberties Association as well.
Is there a group that wants gun laws repealed? Well, some farmers are upset about registering guns. But when gun registration was imposed some protested in a typical Canadian fashion-- they turned their weapons over to police rather than pay the fee to register them.
Basically, Canadians recognize that a handgun exists for one reason: to shoot other people. And frankly, we feel that you don’t need to go around shooting people. That’s what the police are for. In fact, you don’t even need to have access to something that is only useful for shooting people, because any cowboy that does do that is likely to make things worse.
Ditto automatic rifles, ditto most weapons.
And I would disagree with Dr_Paprika’s statement that Canadians are less self-confident. We are considerate; we know the rest of the world is out there; but this doesn’t mean we won’t stand up for ourselves.
There are those Canadians who view a handgun as a sporting instrument, to be used on accredited gun ranges and clubs.
And if I recall correctly, Linda Thom won a gold medal for Canada in handgun at the 1984 Olympics. Very nice person; I got the chance to meet her when I attended a talk she gave shortly after winning the medal. Not at all the kind of person you would think would be interested in handguns.
You may be right, Barbarian that a majority of Canadians see handguns as weapons only. But certainly not all.
Canada is sadly lacking behind in the gay porn industry. When visiting a lovely gay bookstore in Montreal with Matt, I found myself looking at a magazine rack that contained the publications Inches, Black Inches, and Latin Inches… there was no Centimeters in sight.
From there you can extrapolate pretty much everything you need to know.
I live in Toronto. While Toronto is a very diverse city, I would not believe for an instant that TWO THIRDS of the city is made up of immigrants without a pretty good cite.
I think you make a lot of good points, but (as I was concerned would happen) a lot of the claimed differences that have been brought up in this thread have had a strong Canadians-are-better theme underlying them. We’re more tolerant! We’re more polite! We’re more sincere!
In terms of real differences, I think a lot of that is malarkey. We like to compare our strengths with American weaknesses, what Bill James called the “My daddy can lick your little brother” fallacy. Sure, we might not have racial tensions, but has anyone yet mentioned the appalling regional jealousies and rivalries that are evidenced in featherlou’s post, who repeats the same tired old complaint about how unfair it is that the Earth rotates counterclockwise (No, I’m serious; a common Western bitch is that they vote later in the day because, of course, of time zone differences. I have heard it suggested that Ontario and Quebec should be forced to close their polls early so the poor dears in the west won’t be influenced by Ontario/Quebec reports.) The Quebec-English Canada thing has been going on forever; how many times in recent history have you heard of demonstrators in New Mexico burning the flag of Wyoming? Yes, we send lots of peacekeepers on U.N. missions, but how many Canadians have ACTUALLY gone overseas with the U.N., and how many stayed home and bitched about the taxes they pay which support the armed forces and voted for governments that cut their funding?
Sure, some say Canadians are more polite, because they claim Canadians aren’t loud or obnoxious (I think this is a ridiculous lie, but I’ll concede it for now.) How often do Canadians admit their customer service at restaurants, stores, and the like is the absolute pits compared to Americans? Sure, we’re more egalitarian; how often do Canadians point out that another difference is that Americans volunteer more of their time to charity? I won’t even get into the various strengths and weaknesses of the health care systems, except to say that if you don’t think Canada’s health care system has just as many problems, you’ve never been really sick here. (It works pretty well in general. So does the U.S. system.) You can claim, as Dr_Paprika does, that Canadians are thrifty and love value, but Canadians waste just as much money as Americans on their credit cards, so I’ll be damned if I know where that thriftiness is taking place.
Or look at Muffin’s comment:
That’s just crazy. The U.S. is MOSTLY open land and forests and mountains; it’s the cities that are few and far in between. Drive down through Pennsylvania sometime, which has as many people as Ontario, and what you mostly see are forests. Canada is NOT ten times less densely populated where it matters, which is to say along the southern strip adjacent to the U.S. Much of the land that gives us such a low population density is Arctic wasteland where almost nobody lives. If you go to where Canadians live, you’ll find the difference in population denisty simply is not THAT enormous. Drive along the 401 from Windsor to the Quebec border and take route 20 through Quebec and you’ll see just as much urban development as you will anywhere in the U.S.
I am a very proud Canadian, but I think Canadians have a very warped view of themselves sometimes, which they warp by convincing themselves they’re different from Americans, often in ways they really aren’t. Imagine my disappointment when I finally went to Europe and WASN’T treated like a God for being Canadian. The only Canadian most people had heard of was Ben Johnson (and this years after the Ben Johnson scandal.) And the rude tourists weren’t the Americans, they were the other Europeans. As to the Maple Leaf pin on my jacket, I don’t think anyone over there gave a crap, and nobody jumped to my aid when the German tourists stampeded me to steal a table.
I believe, and have always believed, that the people in different countries are basically the same. I think most people just want to improve their lot in life and raise their kids. I think the people in most countries are just about as rude, polite, obnoxious, mannered, generous and kind as they are anywhere else. I really don’t think that in terms of basic values, Americans and Canadians are substantially different in any way, and in fact I believe there is less to distinguish us than there is between any other two peoples on the face of the earth. There are good reasons for that; our countries are children of the same empire. And I really, honestly believe that many of the differences Canadians claim exist do not really exist, and that many of the ones that do are ignored, because many Canadians would prefer to make up differences that make us sound better, rather than look at the differences that tell the truth.
i heard somewhere that winnipeg produces n sells (either or both) the most s&m, gay, beastiality, etc, porn in the world or just canada, i cant remember for the life of me
Actually, my bitch is that we have Representation by Population Government in Canada, and the population is concentrated mostly in Quebec and Ontario, where the interests are significantly different from those in the West. There are a total of 301 seats for Members of Parliament in Canada; Ontario and Quebec claim 178* of those seats. What Ontario and Quebec want, all of Canada gets. It has very little to do with the fact that you vote earlier than we do (it is disheartening, however, to go out and vote, knowing that your vote means nothing - the new government has already been declared before our polls have closed. Our poll results make no difference in the outcome.) It has everything to do with the fact that Westerners do not feel represented in Parliament (we elected 14 Liberal MPs total in MB, SK, AB, BC out of a possible 88 seats*), because we don’t have enough population to challenge the governments that Ontario and Quebec have voted in.
And while we’re on the subject, how would a Torontonian know anything about what common Western bitches are? Did CBC (our “national” channel) all of a sudden start broadcasting Western regional news instead of everything that happens in Ontario and Quebec? Before you start talking about how Westerners feel, maybe you should live here for a little while. You might be surprised. Everyone else who has come out here was. (Oh, I should mention at this point that Maritimers are considered Honourary Westerners by people in the West.)
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Usually one of the first meals I eat when I go home to Quebec is a real poutine. I’ve even had it in Drummondville, at the place where it was invented! REALLY yummy!