From an outside perspective onto the American society I am very often quite flabbergasted by this emphasis on transactional action. The silver bullet might be the middle way. Too much collectivist thinking doesn’t help as one can see in socialist societies where people tend to ship all responsibilities to the government/state. Too much individualism tends to transactional relations and the formation of a rather cold society. I am very often surprised to learn what is considered as ‘socialist’ or ‘communist’ from an American perspective, in health care for example. People are not willing to pay into insurance systems which give health insurance for everybody.
Well, all cultures are different and here as well: people live the consequences of their choice, in this case their (non)vote.
Yes: one of the reasons I’m happier out of the USA. I prefer a middle way.
You already had one, the storming of the capitol.
In both my my home countries that would have been met by bullets, not that I advocate gun violence, but… Zimbabwe would just open fire with AK-47s. South Africa would start with tear gas and rubber bullets, upgrading to real bullets in 7.62mm R5s
I live in the third world, I can’t imagine the storming of (the equivalent of) the Capitol would just yield just one Ashli Babbot.
That presumes that there will be a “next time”, that there will be much left of a Palestine to support, and that those Palestine supporters won’t be deported or killed in the interim.
What they did was the equivalent of a Jew not voting for Hitler’s opponent out of spite for the incumbent, and is likely to turn out just as badly for them. Or worse, as there’s no Allies to stop the fascists from completing their Final Solution this time.
Indeed. I recall watching it unfold in real time and wondering why it wasn’t being beaten back. Why weren’t the mob being shot down into retreat, at least with water cannons and rubber bullets?
But of course control of any defending force was ultimately in Trump’s tiny hands. Perhaps the only real surprise is that the insurrection failed.
No, the Reichstag Fire was assumed to be a False Flag operation by the Nazis with the intent of suspending civil liberties and consolidating total control of Germany.
The storming of the Capitol was not.
Yeah, I studied history at school, and you are correct.
But if you replace “Germany” with “USA” in the part I have quoted… we get Trump.
Given that the Biden administration also gave billions of dollars in weapons to the IDF and also resisted calls for international condemnation, then in your analogy the opposition to Hitler would have just spent years putting people on trains to deadly concentration camps*. Just fewer than Hitler seemed likely to.
I wouldn’t blame someone for neither voting for Hitler nor “Nearly-Hitler”.
* Obviously this is a very sensitive topic so apologies for any offence. I didn’t pick this analogy.
I know of Yglesias, of course, but I was surprised I’d never read this. Very edifying read, thanks! And to think that he wrote this before Trump, yikes…
Prescient indeed.
If I have anything to add to Yglesias’ piece, it’s that, while I agree with him fully about the political situation in the US, it’s clear that, on a global basis, capitalism is no longer working for people–but people tend to blame politicians as if they can do anything. The US needs a better political system, and there are best practices that can help us out. The world needs a better economic system, but we really don’t know what to do about that.
I think what Trump is doing is hastening a collapse of the current political and economic order. He’s so dumb that he thinks he’s selling people on a new system of his own creation, which, owing to his lack of vision, is nothing but personalized but not improved version of the old. By showing everyone that he, the God-Emperor, has no clothes (i.e., no ability to lead to any concrete improvement for everyday people), what he’s actually doing is ripping away the clothing of our institutions and showing everyone their weakness and decrepitude.
I mean, the man belongs in prison. If a revolution happens and is successful, he will be. He may end up there anyway.
Not really, since Biden never actually had the ability to stop Israel. I’m not comparing Trump to Hitler because of what’s likely to happen in Israel, I’m comparing him to Hitler because of what’s likely to happen here. Biden was never going to imprison or kill those Palestine supporters living in America, and American Muslims in general. Trump or his successor will. They effectively voted to kill themselves.
Again, this is framing things as though the only complaints are about what Biden didn’t do, when the most serious grievances are what he did do, and which, bearded belly-dancers aside, aren’t that different to Trump’s policy.
This is a good point though. They did underestimate the likelihood, or just not think of the possibility, of being under siege in the US. I mean, you can be locked up for even protesting the war now – explicitly no crime needs to have been committed. We can’t be that far off raids on Palestinian sympathizers.
@Mijin, I would agree with you were it not for the fact that, to me anyway, Trump is so obviously toxic and full of BS while Harris (and/or the Dems), notwithstanding that they did nothing to appeal to a specific special interest group (and I am appalled by what Israel has done to the Gaza btw), is at least normal and comparatively trustworthy.
A few weeks before the election I watched members of the Dearborn Muslim community, on CBC, discussing how they would not vote for Harris. One specific person actually said that “if Trump is elected, then so be it”.
What pisses me off about that group, and other low/no information voters and voting blocks, is that they could not have been bothered to even see Trump’s toxic characteristics, which have never been hidden and, in fact, are blatantly obvious.
And sure, the Dems could have or should have addressed the Gaza issue, but I don’t recall them ever having a Muslim travel ban until “we figure out just what the hell is going on” (answer: nothing is “going on”).
And to answer the OP’s question, and to help understand why this pisses me off so much - this could end with my country’s (Canada’s) economy destroyed at the whim of a spectacularly ignorant, immature, crude, vulgar giant five year old who bases nothing on logic or any kind of critical thinking.
Agreed with the suggestion there will be a Reichstag Fire event that will allow Trump to invoke the Insurrection Act and impose martial law. I’ve mentioned it a couple of times and see two scenarios MAGA will use.
- There will street protests against the administration or some policy that is invoked and some of the protesters will engage in violent acts. Even if this is very minor DJT will use it as an opportunity to claim it is an insurrection and impose martial law, at least in blue cities and states. Events will likely spiral out of control from there.
- If the midterms end up with enough red seats in the House/Senate flipping blue so the Democrats take control of at least one chamber of Congress then there will be claims of fraud with ensuing attempts to toss out votes or expelling enough D members so the GOP keeps control of both houses. Any resulting protests to these actions will end up with the Insurrection Act being invoked, martial law imposed, etc, etc.
I realize I will likely be shouted down by other posters who claim Trump won’t/can’t follow through on anything he says and is basically harmless but that’s not anything new. I would love to be wrong but looking at what is happening and seeing what the GOP has become I believe it is more likely than not one of these scenarios will occur.
You’re not.
Even if invoking martial law turns out not to happen, it is likely enough to be taken seriously due to its gravity. Lots of people think it simply cannot happen and we shouldn’t worry our pretty little heads about it.
If one of the houses flips, I would lay much greater than 50% odds that there would be at least some attempt to block the results, even if it fails in the courts and does not result in martial law.
By the time of the 2026 midterms I anticipate DJT and his minions will have already acted to ignore any federal court or SCOTUS decision that goes against their wishes. I see no chance the House would take any action about this. The Senate may squawk a little but not enough to make a difference. At that point martial law will be very easy to impose.
And what exactly would martial law look like?
Would it be regional? Statewide? Nationwide?
Curfews?
Would we be issued work permits?
What would hospitals look like?
How would business be impacted?
Leisure activities?
What would travel to other states look like?
Travel to other countries?
How long can that even last?
It’s frightening to even consider.
Yeah it’s crazy that a (minority) of posters are still trying to make such claims. Things are already so much worse than even the most pessimistic scenarios in fiction. No-one could imagine this happening to a wealthy country post WWII.
I agree with both of those scenarios, and I also think another scenario is infighting between MAGA factions. One way or another, MAGA is unstable; being based on attacking some out-group and denial of reality. Eventually all the out group is deported or in prison, and reality comes knocking (e.g. the economy blowing up). Conflict and/or escalation seems inevitable.
(and before anyone says it, we didn’t get actual MAGA last time, thanks to some (vaguely) adults in the room)
(bolding mine)
Please show me where, in this thread or anywhere on the whole board, anyone has said this.
I’m trying to stay out of the overly optimistic v overly pessimistic argument, but this statement is nonsense.