More just wondering than a “need answer fast” situation. I am planning on making some stock today, but I’ll probably use it all for making dinner while it’s still hot.
But in the past, when I’ve made a big pot of stock, let it cool and freeze it in quart batches, I’ve sometimes wondered this. If I’m boiling stock in a covered pot for hours, or in an even more sealed environment like an Instant Pot, the stock and the inside of the pot is sterile. It’s similar to canned food, but obviously not as airtight as a can.How long theoretically before bacteria would make its way into a covered pot and get to the point where it’s unsafe? If I made some stock in the evening, could I leave it out to cool overnight? Again, not planning to do this, just wondering.
Health code says that you should cool it to below 40 within 6 hours. 2 hours to get to 70, then another 4 to get under 40.
I think that you have a substantial margin on this before anything bad actually starts to happen, especially for stock in a covered pot, so if overnight means around 8 hours, you are probably fine. 10ish is probably okay. I don’t think I’d feel comfortable going over that.
Did things change or are you outside the US or is there a subtlety that I’ve missed. When I worked with food, we were told 2 hours to get food from 140F to 40F (and that’s what was on the exam, and that still seems to be what’s on the net.)
You had me wondering for a bit, as I have let my ServSafe lapse. I had it for almost 20 years continuously, but it’s not as necessary in my current line of work so it expired about 4 years ago.
So, I thought maybe it had changed or I misremembered, but, according to:
Was the exam that you took the ServSafe exam, or was it a specific one for for a different company? Some places may have more strict guidelines. When I was a Wendy’s manager, we had to cool the chili to under 40 in 4 hours or less.
What did you see on the internet that is different?
ETA: Oh, and to the OP, I should point out that the timer doesn’t start until your food drops to 135, as long as it is above that temperature, it can be held as long as you need it to be. So, the time going from simmering around 190 to 135 doesn’t count against the time to get it under 40.
Hmmm… I must be mixing it up with a rule by the USDA not to leave food out for two hours. I could swear I read that it couldn’t be between 40 and 140 for more than two hours, but memory plays tricks on you.
ETA: Yeah, that seems to be it. This is info from about 25 years ago in my head, so it must have been that food couldn’t be left out at room temp for more than two hours before being refrigerated and, over time, I conflated it with that food couldn’t be in the “danger zone” temps for more than two hours. Got it now. The internet hits I was getting for “two hours” and “danger zone” all referred to leaving food out before getting it into the fridge, not that the food must be at 40F by this time.
Alton Brown did a great bit about this on Good Eats, where he stressed getting the stock cooled quickly as possible. I’ve used his techniques or variants of them several times - made a bit easier as I normally do my stock in a ceramic slow cooker. Once I’m done, and I’ve pulled out everything but the stock, I take the whole ceramic insert and (carefully) put it in my large igloo-style cooler with 3-4 inches of cool to the touch but not cold water (Alton suggested going straight with ice but I’ve had issues with thermal shock breaking ceramic and pyrex in the past so I’m a bit more cautious), and then put several freshly cleaned/sterilized sealed water bottles filled with ice inside the stock.
It isn’t perfect, but by the time the ice in the bottles has melted, the stock is normally cool enough to quickly decant into containers for freezing or other non-immediate use.
ETA - one thing I do even with the above is anytime I am using my homemade stock is to bring it to a full roiling boil for 2 minutes prior to use in case I didn’t get it done in time. But that’s probably a good idea regardless.
When I make a big vat of chili, when I cool it down, I’ll fill a few glasses with ice water, cover them with plastic wrap, then put them into the chili.
At Wendy’s we had ice paddles, basically a big hollow paddle to fill with ice water, that we’d stir the chili with, then had ice blocks that we’d put in to help it to cool overnight in the walk-in.
Speaking as someone who routinely leaves food out longer than recommended, this is good advice. In particular, I’ve left soup to cool overnight, and in the winter, when my kitchen gets quite cool at night (no where near 40F, but comfortably under 70F) it’s usually fine. But in the summer it sometimes goes a little “off”. I’ve reboiled it, but the quality is lower.
A large pot of stock will stay above 135 for a while, and it’s certainly fine to make the stock mid-day and use it for supper.
I also think some of my pots “seal” better than others, and the “it’s nearly sterile” theory works better for some of them than for others. If you are using an instant pot, it’s trivial to set it to “keep warm after cooking”, and that will keep the broth above 135F all night, no problem. I love the instant pot for this. I can start a pot of broth before going to bed, and then deal with it any time the next day, even on very hot days.
Fwiw, I’m much more careful to refrigerate food when my kitchen is warmer than 70, not because I’ve been formally trained, but because I’ve noticed HOW MUCH FASTER food spoils at 75 than at 68.
I cook large batches of stuff on Sunday nights to take to work for lunch over the course of the week. Usually it’s somewhat soup like (meat, vegetables and usually pre-made broth) and I put it over rice in containers for each day of the week. I frequently leave it out over night to cool with no problems so far. It gets thoroughly heated (sometimes over heated) in a microwave at work.
Yeah, I’ve left broth out on the kitchen overnight by sheer forgetfullness, and, with my room temps (about 77-80 in the summer; we don’t like cooling it down much more than that) I’ve had stock definitely go off. I wouldn’t dare even reheat it. Straight into the garbage/down the drain it goes. In the winter, I’ll leave soups and stews outside to cool, though (and even to store if it’s below 40). I’m pretty lax about expiration dates and the such, but I can’t bring myself to leave broth or stew in ambient temperatures overnight. Broth is just the perfect medium for all sorts of yukkies.