How long to recover

Discussing trump and the things he’s done while occupying the white house with my parents last night. They are of the opinion we can get back to some approximation of where were and the direction we were going as a nation before trump, within 20 to 30 years.

It’s arguable, but I don’t agree. At least not on everything. Trump has ripped off a veneer of politeness and civility that, while informative in the short term, I think may be more harmful in the long term. As worn and thin and cracked as that veneer was, it at least allowed for the possibility of civil discourse.

I think, however you choose to characterize the things trump has done to this country, it’s going to be 50 years at a minimum for some things to heal, a 100 for some others. Funny though, having had the festering racism, discrimination against the LGBT community, immigrants from any country not in Europe etc brought fully into the light, perhaps I’m wrong and the healing and repair can be done much more quickly.

Which way do you think? 50 to a 100 years to repair some of the things trump has done or a shorter time span to root out the ignorance and prejudice in the US that he has brought to prominent display?

Depends on what the overall public and institutional reaction is.

Demographic trends are in support of tolerance and inclusion, and sustainability. It is possible that the last 4 years will be seen as a brief backwards step in what had been an increasingly positive trend. An aggressive Congress and president can accomplish a great deal - no matter how activist a conservative court, there are limits to their ability to dictate everything.

One telling point will be the willingness of more moderate Republicans to continue to whore themselves out to the extremely ignorant and prejudiced element in their party.

I think it could take eight years, or possibly a generation. Despite the unpopularity of negative politics, that is a strategy that works.

The strategy gradually began to fail, so the Republican Party augmented it with dirty tricks and attacks on democracy. This time it will probably fail, but Republicans will just learn the lesson that an unskilled leader like Trump is a bad leader, not that their strategy is inherently flawed. I expect the next Republican primary to have a Trump-like contender, and if that contender wins the primary they will lose the next election.

The “professionals” might learn the lesson with alacrity in a few weeks, but their voters will rage at the slow dying of their brand of Republicanism, possibly for life.

I should clarify that my previous response is premised on at least a Biden victory, if not a blue sweep. If Trump/McConnell win, I forsee a long, bleak future.

I don’t think there will be a recovery.

Political culture has drastically changed from where we were in 2015 to where we are in 2020. Only five years but Trump, Brexit, anti-establishment themes, anti-expertise, extreme Nationalism, Qanon and other conspiracies. These had always existed but have been amplified in the mainstream following 2016. The genie was let out of the bottle and you can’t now put it back.

A Biden victory will show they are still a vocal minority. But even a landslide won’t make these people and their views reconsider. They’ll still be around and loud. They’ve had their views legitimized in the highest corridors of power. Social media is their biggest asset. Biden may get a big landslide, in the bigger picture, there’s going to be a generation for whom exposure to conspiracies and deep hatred for the ‘other’ is easily accessible. Older voters will die off and then you’re left with politics of the extremely online being the new mainstream.

It has also been very well demonstrated that truth and accuracy are now completely irrelevant, as long as you behave like a loud, school-yard bully. And based on the populations illustrated in the previous election and in the various Trump rallies over the last four years, there are enough school-yard bullies to prevent, or significantly hamper a recovery.

Although I don’t want to make a prediction, I am wondering whether a vast infrastructure program would go far to mollifying the non-college-educated whites (as well as blacks). Just hoping.

I don’t think that our international standing will recover soon, if ever. Sure, other countries have always cast a (sometimes more, sometimes less) dubious eye on our actions and intentions. But we at least still had some credibility that we would back our alliance partners and stand by our international commitments. Trump has shredded that credibility. Even if Biden comes sweeping into office and says all the right things about commitment to NATO, standing by our international agreements, etc., other countries will rightly ask themselves how long until the US elects another nut job who will swerve course yet again.

Everything I have heard or read about Andy Jackson (since grade school when everyone was a hero) indicates that he was an uncouth, obnoxious, and practically illiterate lout who thumbed his nose at the courts and all convention. He was censured I believe and in a different matter dared the court to try to enforce their judgment against him.

I seem to recall that he was supposed to be the ruination of the nation. Does he remind you of any current executive officer? Have we ever recovered from his administration? How long did it take?

Now, Jackson is on the Twenty Dollar Bill and in my youth he was favorably portrayed in Disney movies about Davy Crocket. My only question about Trump’s legacy is whether he should be pictured on the Peso, or the Ruble?

President Biden will need to bring a dozen long stem roses and a box of chocolates to each and every one of our previous dance partners.

Not sure what he is going to have to do with some of our new dance partners in Russia, North Korea, and elsewhere (including domestically with certain hate groups) but whatever it is it will need to be swift and unambiguous.

I do not think that “recovery” is possible, as in “going back to the way things were”. I also don’t think that is the best vision. Since we have learned that “the rules no longer apply”, perhaps there is an opening for some meaningful change in the proper direction? One can hope.

Regarding foreign relations, yes, everyone will be more wary of potential future knuckleheads. The US has shown that they just can’t be trusted, yah?

I’m glad to see that everyone read with clarity that which, in retrospect, I did not state with great clearness.

Regarding international relations, I have to agree, however glumly, that we may not ever regain what he has destroyed. I wish I had the knowledge or expertise to speculate what the economic ramifications of that would be. I simply cannot imagine there not being any negative impact as well, resulting from the political side.

As far as “anything goes”, I’m not sure yet what I think or feel about that, where we should go, or try to go with that. I wasn’t thinking exactly back to where we were before trump. I don’t think that’s possible, but headed forward again instead of backwards, back into the 21st century and beyond instead of back to … whatever time period trump was aiming for politically. I do think we can achieve that, possibly even within a reasonable time frame. I just don’t know if we will.

We’ll never recover the international goodwill we earned with the Marshal Plan, the Peace Corps, and lip service to human rights. George Bush probably pounded the last nail into that coffin. Trump just desecrated the grave. We’ve lost that leadership role in the world. The best we can hope for is that we might someday become a good neighbor, but that won’t happen until Americans learn the virtue of humility. So…probably not even that.

Well stated. I agree fully. Oh, if only someone else had been able to respond differently on 9/12…

I’m of the opinion that though America’s foreign relations with traditions western allies have become strained, they remain intact and, like any good longtime friendship, will pick up where it left off. I believe this is true for most, if not all, of the European NATO partners.

China is the emerging threat to western democracies and economies. The EU sees them as a global threat and they will need the US and its influence in the Americas. Pacific rim countries that were banking on the trans-Pacific trade agreement also see China as a threat and will also join the US and EU in opposing growing Chinese aggression in the China sea and Taiwan, etc.

I think that under the Biden administration, Trump’s disastrous foreign policies will be water under the bridge in very short order.