Thank you ADAHER, I just knew someone had intelligence
SHANTI: What is it with you and David…sheesh!
you are right adaher, the worst of regimes.
It was just a reference spogga. GWB has an ego he can’t control as did David, nothing personal, I assure you.
So about this “just cause” - might that be supposed to be based upon the rather elusive weapons of mass destruction?
Shanti, everyone reasonable opposes war. But if there’s one thing the 90s have taught us, there are worse things than war. Sanctions cause more death and misery than war. So do tyrannies. At least five times as many people have been killed by their own governments in “peacetime” as have been killed in wars.
So we have two things that are worse than war. Sanctions and tyranny. And the US has never waged a war that didn’t involve overthrowing a tyranny, or at least stopping it from further aggression.
Hang on a minute ADAHER, what about 1775…oh right, sorry :slap:
SHANTI: No offence taken I assure you 
CELYN: Believe me they’ll be found, your apology will be accepted.
I meant :smack: D’oh
Adaher is quite right in his statement that sanctions cause more death and misery than war, children starve, go without medical treatment, die of thirst and disease…and why?
Because the despotic rulers of the land undergoing sanctions creams off any aid being sent to that country and uses what ever profits to line his already overflowing pockets.
Whenever American troops (and UK ones) enter a country the first priority is aid to the people they have freed…this you cannot deny
This could well be true. All it would take is one idiot with his finger on the button.
Last time I checked, Rome, Mongolia, China, Spain, Holland, France, Egypt, Greece, (you have Spain twice) and England are still around.
Where is the USA going to go? It’s not going to sink into the sea like Atlantis. American civilization isn’t going to up and disappear like the Myans. Is our “Empire” of 50 states going to suddenly break apart? I don’t think so.
Desmostylus quote:
This could well be true. All it would take is one idiot with his finger on the button.
so 1950s :rolleyes:
Excellent rebuttal. :rolleyes:
The US is not “confronting” the rest of the world. Right now we are confronting Iraq. The disagreement we have with many Europena countries is simply about the tactics of dealing with Iraq. As we are talking about the entire of span of existence of the US (past and future), this particular spat will be but a tiny blip on the radar screen.
Don’t lose sight of the forest for a single tree.
At least Susanann has added to the conversation.
And I happen to agree with Susanann on some points:
The US military is quite a bit lower than it was two decades ago (Due to the falling of the U.S.S.R.), although it is on the rise again (link).
In an economic situation that Susanann predicts it is not especially far fetched to believe that our nation’s army will have out of date weapons.
and Susanann’s prediction on China being the next world power is very reasonable. More than a billion people, a huge modern army, rising technological industries… We may be seeing a little more power behind China’s decisions in the next several years.
Thaty only suggests China will move into the position formerly occupied by the Soviets as the primary military rival of the U.S. It says nothing about the continued existence of the United States, nor do I see the U.S. letting their (rather extreme) technical edge slip away.
And Desmostylus, msmith didn’t need to give you an “excellent” rebuttal because your point wasn’t excellent (or even particuarly well-thought-out) in the first place. If you’re going to use outdated rhetoric, why not just call somebody an establishment pig and be done with it?
How terribly kind of you. 
And that of Hans Blix too, no doubt.
Blix doubts Iraq had WMD
Hans Blix spent several years searching for Iraq’s weaponsThe United Nations’ former chief weapons inspector Hans Blix has said Iraq probably destroyed all of its weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) more than a decade ago.
How terribly kind of you. And that of Hans Blix too, no doubt.
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CELYN: I believe the operative word is “PROBABLY”.
Away the noo (or summat like that!) and I’ve changed my mind, your apology will not be accepted, money on the other hand…
Away the noo ? Fine, should I ever encounter a “noo”, I might pass on your message, not that it has much connection with the O.P., or any sort of debate.
Lower in terms of what? Size? Quality? Technology?
The nature of war these days does not require having a huge standing army ready to unleash thousands of tanks on the Red Menance. We are much better off with smaller, more advanced forces that can rapidly be deployed then the huge lumbering heavy divisions of the 80s.
And enough with the “USA is an Empire” nonsense. We are not an Empire in any sense resembling the old Roman, British or even the Soviet empires. We are not a collection of foreign states held together by fear and economic necesity. We are influential and we have powerful allies all over the world but we are not an empire that will fall and crumble as our outer providences fall to barbarians.
time ain’t what it used to be.
How fast did technology change 1000 years ago. We are riding a much faster roller coaster. What effect is the exchange of info over the internet having on society? Can’t be measured. When was the last time you heard planned obsolescence mentiond on television? I last heard it in 1979.
I think lasting the next 50 years will be hard. The American Dream is too dumb to last, may go into nightmare mode.
Dal Timgar