I doubt that Latins will show such tolerance for you when they are the majority.
Perhaps it would be better if there were strict immigration controls so that such problems simply wouldn’t arise to begin with.
Why is it that almost everyone on this thread seems to accept the idea that we are somehow morally obligated to accept the large scale immigration which causes such problems in the first place? And why do they assume that the immigrants will have much tolerance for us?
If only there was some kind of written document safe-guarding the rights of the individual (oh I don’t know, say, your right to express religious belief with your choice of head coverings) against abuse by the majority-elected government.
The thing is, I don’t want to be part of some magical “organic” community. I’m a nonconformist in various ways, big and small. My views on religion are out of step with the majority of Americans. I’m a straight male, but apart from a few intermittant flirtations with baseball at various points in my life, I just don’t give a hoot about sports. My tastes in how I spend my leisure time and how I spend my money and how I live my life in general are not necessarily “normal” in any statistical sense.
Note that I have no option to “go back where I came from” if somehow I don’t fit in in this country, since I was born here. I either live my life here, jump through considerable hoops to immigrate to another first world country (where I may not necessarily fit in any better than here), or go to the considerable inconvenience and possibly even risk of moving to a non-first world country.
As it happens, this country is a pretty good place for a person who doesn’t necessarily fit in all that well to live. I live in a good-sized metro area in modern America, and as long as I don’t infringe on other people’s rights, I can go about my life as I please without being run out of town on a rail by a mob of peasants with pitchforks. I like this, and am disinclined to support policies–about immigration or anything else–that are designed to make this country a more “organic” and conformist sort of place.
Of course I don’t want this country taken over by “Islamofascists” and be turned into a dhimmi living under Sharia law, but fortunately I think there is as near to zero chance of that as you can get in human affairs. I also have no real fear that a bunch of Latinos are going to take over and force me to stop speaking English, either in my personal life or at the DMV.
What do you think the “Latins” are going to do to you when they’re in the majority?
This assumes that everyone will respect this document; that is to say, the people who created this document, and their descendants, and those who have immigrated to the land after the creation and general acceptance of this document, have enough in common in terms of culture, ethnicity and race, that there can be a general agreement concerning the meaning of such a document. No society, no nation, no community, can be based solely on abstract principles.
“Culture”, maybe; but “race” and “ethnicity” simply have nothing to do with respect for the constitution. I’ll take a brown-skinned liberal over a pink-skinned fascist any day.
And why do you assume that the culture created once whites have been been displaced as the dominant majority, will still have the same tolerance for you? You cannot divorce culture from ethnicity and race, and you have no guarantee whatsoever that displaces the current majority will care anything about your rights or your “non-conformity.” And people who make a big deal out of being “non-conformists” are not non-conformists in any significant sense of the term. Like “conformists,” they are concerned with appearance, not substance.
Yes you can.
They will promote and protect their racial and ethnic interests to the exclusion of the interests of all others; that is, they will protect and advance their interests to the exclusion of those who are not Latin.
Your right to swing your fist (exercise your beliefs) ends where my nose begins (exercising your beliefs tramples on my civil rights). It’s real simple. If we will not offer that courtesy to others, we should not expect it to be extended to us. I don’t shake hands with men on introduction. I consider it an unclean act and an insult. However, out of respect for the laws of my country I do not to respond with physical violence if a man tries to coerce me. I wouldn’t begrudge the Muslim woman her head scarf and chador coming into one of my shops (or the Rasta guy with long covered hair ) even though I know how easy it is to shoplift in loose, flowing garments because I respect their right to live their culture as long as it doesn’t oppress me.
I’m not sure what this means. What interests do Latinos have that don’t apply to non-Latinos, and how will their promotion of those interests harm non-Latinos? What specific interests are they going to neglect?
Yeah, who did see that coming?
No respect for the culture of your country, then?
Because you say so? Let us suppose that, gradually, over several generations, the present population of Japan is replaced by immigrants from east Africa. That is, one third to one half of Japan’s current population is replaced by African immigrants over the next several generations. It is absurd to believe that African immigrants arriving in such numbers will have any great interest in preserving and upholding the culture of modern and ancient Japan. Certainly they may adopt many aspects of Japanese culture, but ultimately the culture they establish in the Japanese islands will be an African culture, not a Japanese culture. Most likely there would be regions where native Japanese have managed to preserve themselves as a people, but the Japanese nation as we know it today would be gone. It would be a disaster for the Japanese as a nation, as a people and as a culture.
You cannot separate the ethnic and racial composition of Japan from the culture of Japan. Reduce the Japanese people to a minority, and Japan simply ceases to exist as a nation in any truly meaningful sense.
People who look differently or wear different clothes are not going to threaten the existence or meaning of the constitution. Deciding (as you were advocating earlier in the thread) that it doesn’t protect your right choose what head gear you need to wear to follow your religious beliefs will.
The US seems to be doing pretty well so far.
Undermining immigration laws so as to allow the Latin population to grow. Demanding special preferences for Latins in employment and education (i.e. affirmative action). Preventing the authorities from enforcing laws such as livestock restrictions in urban areas or even basic sanitation. Keeping the authorities from doing anything about the various shanty towns growing up along the southwestern border. Displacing native born Americans from various jobs. Demanding that public schools teach their children in Spanish rather than English. Demanding that illegals be granted the same rights as citizens. Shouting loudly and angrily that the southwestern United States belongs to Hispanics and not to Anglos. Demanding that Anglo students not display the American flag on Cinco de Mayo. Demanding that illegals should receive free health care, education and welfare.
In short, trying to squeeze every conceivable political and economic advantage from Anglo-Americans that they can possibly get.
And this is all true because you say so?
First of all, it is true that if people of a different culture immigrate to a new country, their culture–their ideas–will likely influence and change the culture of their new homeland. This has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. If the nation of Ruritania adopts millions of Chinese babies, future Ruritanians may have somewhat differently colored skin or differently shaped eyes from the ancestral ur-Ruritanians (who, for the sake of argument, had fair skin, usually with freckles, red or blond hair, and blue or green eyes). But Ruritanian culture won’t change one iota–Ruritanians won’t magically start eating with chopsticks or speaking Mandarin.
American culture and politics derive most fundamentally from those of England. We have managed to successfully absorb tens of millions of German-Americans and Irish-Americans, who have assimilated to the point where they are barely even visible as “ethnic groups” (apart from everyone claiming to be Irish on St. Patrick’s Day). Of course they had some influence on our culture, but we still speak English, not German, and we still have the same constitution and the same laws with their ancient English roots. Apart from having somewhat different skin tones or eye shapes, there is no reason we can’t Americanize Latinos or Asians or Africans just as successfully as we have Germans and Irishmen and Poles (while, of course, stealing any good ideas those ethnic groups may happen to have, especially in such areas as cuisine or art or music).
No you specifically chose NOT to express your position other than a meaningless catchphrase, because you can’t. You said:
You are the one claiming that your grandparents fresh off the boat fit in perfectly with American society and completely abandoned their native culture. This has happened never, in the history of ever.
I’m sorry you’re white and live in fear of others different from you. It must be pretty shitty, my life is pretty awesome personally since I choose not to be afraid of something that has been happening for hundreds of years.
This is circular - you’re arguing that we need to fear the growing Latino population because it will make the Latino population grow.
Well, we already have affirmative action, which was created by the white majority of this country to help out the various minorities. If Latinos become the dominant ethnicity in the country, is there any particular reason to think that a Latino America will be less likely to attempt to extend social programs to assist non-majority (including, at this point, white) ethnicities?
Note that this is separate entirely from the question of whether these policies are a good idea or not. You’re attempting to argue that the country will get significantly worse if Latinos become dominant. I don’t think pointing to existing social programs demonstrates and arguing that Latinos will continue them constitutes things getting worse, even if you believe that the existence of those policies is already bad.
Why do you think Latinos are particular unsanitary? Do you think wanting livestock in urban areas is a part of Latino culture, or part of rural culture? Do you think second generation Latinos who have grown up in urban environments are going to want to live with a bunch of chickens, or are they just going to go to KFC like everyone else does?
What do you think should be done to these towns, and the people living in them?
So? All else being equal, why should I care if a job goes to a guy from Oklahoma versus a guy from Oaxaca? And, since this is a hypothetical future America where Latinos are the dominant ethnicity, how many of them are going to be immigrants, versus native born American Latinos?
Well, if the majority of people in this country speak Spanish, that only makes sense. That’s not a reason, in and of itself, to want to keep Spanish speakers out of the country, unless you can show that speaking Spanish is, in and of itself, somehow leads to worse outcomes than speaking English.
I’m okay with this.
Again, the hypothetical is one where they’re already a majority in this country. So, who exactly are they demanding that land be returned to, and from whom?
Well, that, at least, is likely in our scenario, and is something that I’d be opposed to. It is, after all, precisely the sort of thing you complain about Latinos doing when they’re a minority, so I’d expect that we’d find your counterpart among our hypothetical Latino majority. I don’t see any reason to expect the extremist fringe of Latino culture to have any greater success at getting that sort of thing passed into law than you have doing it in the real world, though.
I’m okay with this, too.
It’s interesting that you perceive political and economic advantage to be something that flows purely from white people, that we share with our duskier cousins out of some sort of largesse. It seems more likely that, in our hypothetical, people will attempt to get whatever political or economic advantage they can get, full stop. Just like people (of whatever race) do today. You haven’t given me any particular reason to expect that Latinos are going to be any more greedy or rapacious about doing it than our current white majority, though.