For those of you who don’t know, Ryan_Liam is getting a good spanking over in GD in this thread where he voices fear that “his” country (England) will be taken over by Muslim hoards who will inforce “their way of life” on his sorry 18 year old ass. He even goes so far, in the beginning of the thread, as to say that he’d be willing to take to arms to prevent this.
You don’t need to wade through that whole thread, which has been fairly civil and reasonable. Towards the end of page four, he even concedes:
There is a reason I included that time mark. Because not much later, in this thread about the people of the US over reacting to 9/11, he shows up again:
So you tried to weasel your way out of a debate in which all your so called arguments fell as flat to the floor as a flap jack missing the skillet. And you did so by saying that you might have been over the top a little. Only to show up 2½ hours later in another thread, spouting of this same ignorance.
I don’t know why you would be so surprised at the discrepancy in those postings. Ryan doesn’t give evidence of what it was that changed his opinion, or of which xenophobic points he was apologising for any more than he gave evidence for anything else he said. His argument was untenable, and he backed away (rather than backing down, which is what he should have done), without even learning that there are some things it’s wiser to shut up about if you haven’t got a decent argument in the first place.
It seems to me that his tinfoil hat is still jammed securely down over his eyes.
I wouldn’t have bothered with the original thread at all, except that he’s expousing many of the views that Daily Mail readers suppress. And they blame ‘political correctness’ for not being able to say such things openly, because like Ryan_Liam, they too ‘know Mulsim people’ and ‘don’t have a problem with them individually’ and blah blah…but funnily enough, they vote for the BNP in tens of thousands.
Wow, I finally get to fuck someone. First time. Please be gentle with me. How do I hold this wire brush?
Anyway, I’m cough now, and was wondering at the present rate of declining tolerance and rising bigotry from Muslim haters, how long would it take for them to become the majority government and legislature in Europe?
If it ever happens, I’ll take up wire brushes. Because I don’t want to my culture I’ve lived in all my life be oppressed and tyrannised. Now I know, I’ll probably get little slack for saying that, but there’s no point where nobody wants someone not to cross and thats nothing. Besides, I have no valid points if I did take extreme action on the basis of them being more intolerant than my society and people are on a whole.
Meh. Ryan has a valid point in there somewhere. If a person is going to move from Country A to Country B, they damned well better be ready to adopt the culture of Country B. If they don’t want to readily adopt their new nations’ culture (not in a few generations, but in a more timely manner), they are more than welcome to stay in Country A. The burden of change is (or should be) on the immigrant, not the ‘host’ nation.
Brutus, you overlook the fact that much of the Muslim immigration to Britain in recent years has been refugees. Not ‘bogus asylum seekers’, but people who have been found to have a legitimate reason to escape their homeland. Such as Somalis, (until recently) Kosovans, and gasp Iraqis (mostly Kurds). I ask you to show any part of international law that places any obligation on them to ‘adopt’ any culture in order to gain protection from persecution.
If British culture is good enough to seek refuge in, it is good enough to adopt as ones’ own. And given the permanent nature of ‘refugees’ in Britain, it is defacto immigration.
Feh, what about the theoretical example of a country that, while being in one’s opinion the “best” culture in the world, still has glaring shortcomings?
Are you not allowed to try to change the culture for the better from within simply because you were not born in your country of choice?
I thought the Muslims already *did * invade Yurp a few hundred years ago. Left a considerable stockpile of learning when they were drummed back out as I recall.
Britain doesn’t ‘seek’, it attracts. How can a country expect to portray itself as a beacon of freedom and of prosperity, and not make itself a target for people driven from them homeland?
Well, six in one hand, half-dozen in the other. Of course asylum seekers are ‘attracted’ to Britain; It has such permissive asylum policies that it must be an attractive choice. (Choice, mind you; GB isn’t going out and kidnapping these people, forcing them to move there). The policies are so permissive, that they could easily be seen as ‘seeking’ refugees, in a sense.
But that is all an aside. I am not talking about legal obligations for this or that. If a person moves to another country, the burden is on them to adapt to their new home, not for the home to adapt for the newcomer. To not adopt their new homes’ customs and culture means that the move was nothing but base economic opportunism.
Britain’s asylum policies are brutal, degrading, and humiliating. If you can give a cite for a ‘permissive’ element to them, I’d love to see it.
Britain’s still perceived to be the desirable target by many refugees, for two reasons. Firstly, they don’t get to know what life will be like here until they arrive. Secondly, life for refugees in most European countries is even more unpleasant.
No. You’re wrong. In the case of refugees, the burden is on the new country to adopt them, no matter what. (Unless they commit crimes in that country, in which case they are subject to normal procedures.)
I don’t really see the second part. In which way are you forced to adapt? Even if there are people with recognisably different customs, how does that cause problems for you?
Heh, trying to weasel my way out, jeez I actually did mean my reversal of what I said, I took in the other points of view and changed my outlook. I didn’t know it was so fucking hard to change my own mind about things here.
You wish.
Well what the fuck am I supposed to do? Run away from the thread and then get my ass called up for that B.S? It’s Great Debates, debates which determine an outlook which will either stay the same or change completely. Even though it might have been a ‘ridiculous debate’ in your eyes, it helped me change my perception didn’t it? If you can’t see that I backed down, thought about what I said and then finally thought ‘right yeah, some or maybe even all my points are b.s and am willing to work on it’ then fuck you, you aren’t worth convincing.
Enough with this Klansmen, BNP ‘Ryan wants to join them and become the next Oswald Moseley fuckwit’ Rant, some of my questions and fears maybe paranoid tin foil hatness and I apologise for that, people here did show some good examples which turned my opinions around. I’ll apologise for the racial profiling B.S.
People ask me if I have or should make Muslim friends, and then when I come around and say I do have some, you’re all shocked, it must be false because I ask these questions and have these opinions, even if they were bigoted and wrong, well last time I checked I was a human being with my own mind and point of view, which I might add is able to change with times and be influenced by different peoples perceptions as well. I can incorporate new ideas you know. :rolleyes: