TBH, I’ve had the most negative “You must convert NOW!” interactions with militant anti-religionists than with any other kind of people.
I’ve been out of food service for a while, but I hear that leaving those pamphlets in lieu of a tip is still fairly common.
Not sure if that counts as an attempt at conversion, or if it’s just demonstrating what a terrible belief system they have.
The only times I’ve ever seen athiests attempt to convert others are either newly deprogrammed individuals or those who are fighting against religious oppression.
In the first instance, it’s similar to how after someone gets out of a cult, they want to help others escape the cult as well. It often takes a while to find that someone has to choose to leave the cult, they can’t be forced to.
You’ll often find people in their early 20’s having left the influence of their parents and had a chance to actually start thinking for themselves in this catagory.
In the second instance, it’s a reaction to things like:
Where they are literally being called demons during government proceedings because they don’t believe, and they push back as hard. Maybe you don’t deserve that pushback, but you get some part of it because you are standing beside the ones that do.
TBH, everyone should be in this category.
And it depends. Is it more negative to tell someone that they are going to be tortured for an eternity in hell because they don’t believe what you believe, or to tell them that they are supporting an authoritarian regime that is trying to strip people of their rights?
Personally, I see the first as more negative, but for those who believe the first to be true, I can understand why they would see the latter as being more negative.
I’m sure he’d be more than happy to call you possessed as well, but notice that the people he actually was insulting weren’t atheists. I think discussions like this would go more smoothly if people would stop treating “evangelical Trump-loving Christianity” and “religion” as interchangeable terms.
OMG, that’s horrible! What kinds of weapons did they carry? Were you able to escape them without harm? What did the police do when you contacted them?
Okay, I noticed. Not sure the point you are trying to make.
No one is doing that.
So you think it would be perfectly reasonable for someone to read that article, get appropriately enraged and go burn down a mosque because RELIGION? I mean, I’m sure you don’t, but if you do draw a distinction between generic religion and Christian Nationalism, it’s not coming across to me from your posts.
It just seems a bit weird that, when giving an example of something that atheists find offensive and threatening, you come up with a case of one religious person insulting other religious people.
Not trying to start a fight. We are both members of tiny religious minorities who face an existential threat from the rise of Christian Nationalism. Let’s be allies.
You know it’s not helping the atheist cause when someone says they’ve only had negative reactions to atheists and then atheists get offended and immediately go on the offensive.
I’m an atheist myself but it’s a pretty mainstream belief now that Internet Reddit Fedora Atheists are some of the worst people ever. Stuff like attacking people who say “Thoughts and Prayers” in a Twitter post about somebody mourning the loss of their friend and they ASKED people for prayers.
Stochastic terrorism. Calling someone’s enemies literal demons is a way of dehumanizing them. Will this outburst of hate be the one that drives someone over the edge into violence? Maybe, maybe it’s the next one. Maybe it was the last one.
I wasn’t aware that it was my responsibility to draw such a distinction. I was pointing to this individual and their actions, actions that are tolerated because he is a christian, and even encouraged by a larger segment of the population than you might expect.
When someone commits violence in the name of Islam, Muslim religious leaders are quick to denounce the violence, to distance themselves from the ideology of the perpetrators.
That’s something I’ve very rarely seen among Christians. Someone will stand up and claim that God says this and God says that, and the only ones that give any pushback are non-Christians, who are then labeled as militant.
I gave an example from just yesterday of someone forcing their religion on others in a government proceeding. As an atheist, I don’t judge people on their beliefs, I find them all equally implausible, I judge them on how they express them.
This didn’t happen in the 50’s or the 1850’s, this happened yesterday. Christian extremists are getting bolder, more outspoken, more threatening. And the Christians that don’t call them out for it are providing cover. When one of these people stand up and say that this is a Christian nation, so we should pass such and such religious based policies, they are relying on the fact that the Christians won’t stand up against them. They claim to be speaking for all Christians, so any Christians that they aren’t speaking for need to stand up and let that be known.
Sure.
No one got offended, and no one went on the offensive.
In fact, I offered a few examples of times when atheists may go too far in their attempts at “converting” others.
Google doesn’t come up with anything along the lines of that phrase, so I assume you just made it up.
Edit: after a bit more googling, I find that the fedora is part of a pejorative meme towards atheists. I’m not sure I get it, but I now see that is intended as an insult to all atheists.
It’s a big internet, so I’m sure that’s happened somewhere once or twice. As an atheist, I denounce such actions, of what I’m sure is an extremely small number of nutpicked instances, and say that they do not speak for the overall atheist community.
Of course, in a post where someone expresses loss, and doesn’t ask for thoughts and prayers, I doubt that there will be many Christians who will denounce those who offer them anyway.
It is the term “militant atheists” that trips my trigger.
What the holy fuck is an “Internet Reddit Fedora Atheist”??
I’ve seen people insult atheists by claiming they wear fedoras before. Or, um, insult the sort of atheist who wear fedoras? Do they even exist?
The funny thing is that the only people I’ve ever seen wear fedoras in real life are orthodox Jewish women.
Hm. Just the other day I was reading something by a liberal Christian complaining that the media never cover all the statements that liberals make denouncing the “Christian Right”. I think they may have a point; when Islamists do terrible things, the media make a point to give a platform to non-terrorist Muslims. But when Christians say outrageous and hateful things, it doesn’t seem to be standard practice for journalists reporting about it to get a quote from the Episcopalians.
I think if you travel in liberal Christian circles you’ll hear a whole lot of people unequivocally condemning the Religious Right. The problem is that few people outside those circles are listening. I agree that they need to speak up louder, but I don’t think it’s their fault that the media largely ignores the efforts they do make.
How often do these liberal Christians issue press releases, buy air time on television and/or radio, or hold highly publicized rallies? If you wait for the press to contact you to get your message out, then you have already lost.
So you quoted my whole post, except for the sentence where I said that I think they need to be working harder at it?
Hey, lay off people wearing fedoras.
and then you ended it with “… but I don’t think it’s their fault that the media largely ignores the efforts they do make.”
I then gave specifics as to how they should work harder, and why it is their fault.
Same. I live in NYC and this has never happened to me. I’ve walked past people handing out pamphlets on street corners and the Lubavitchers asking people if they are Jewish but no one has ever had a direct interaction trying to convert me to their religion. What religion people are just doesn’t seem like that big a deal here compared to other places.
That was my thought too! Fedoras were essential during the early days of DopeFests (along with kilts). We all looked good in fedoras in those days.
I find myself in a church from time to time. I am surrounded by Christians of various denominations. I’ve never heard a Christian speak out against religious based governmental policies.
Sure, sometimes they’ll call out the Westboro Baptists, and other extreme examples, but they don’t call out people like Mark Houck who harass women trying to access reproductive healthcare. I don’t see any Christians calling out people like Stuart Long.
These people are leaders, they are clergy, pastors or ministers etc.
It may be a bit much to expect on the nightly news, “Today Christian leaders denounced Pastor Stuart Long for claiming that non-Christians are possessed by demons, and make decisions based on their possession.” But I am looking for anyone other than non-Christians to call him out, and finding nothing.
Are there any liberal to moderate megachurches?