How realistic are TV and movie representations of high school classes?

Cafe Society
41

I agree with the emerging consensus on all these points, except the one about students joining classes late having to stand up and introduce themselves. I joined schools late a couple of times and more often than not the teacher made me stand in front of the class, introduce myself, say where I’d moved from - just like in the movies.

Anyway, as others have asked, how are most of these points different in the U.K.? Do British students sit exclusively at tables? Or on beanbags? Are new students never introduced to the class? Do teachers not lecture and lead discussions in front of some kind of chalkboard or slideshow? I’m sure some things are different, but I assumed some basic things held true from culture to culture. :confused:

42

scifisam2009, I’m still waiting for you to go through the things listed in the OP and tell us what British schools were like for each item.

43

Did any of it stick?

The typing skills, I mean.

44

I teach in a mid-size (1150) high school in Texas in a large urban district.

Do you have individual desks set in rows?

One thing no one’s mentioned is that the student desks in the US today are generally NOT the ones you see on TV–the TV ones, made of wood with the little tiny writing surface off to the right, disappeared 20 or more years ago. These days desks are mostly plastic. The ones that are all one piece–writing surface and seat–have a much bigger writing surface that extends across the whole front of the desk. Some schools have plastic chairs and little plastic desks that are more like small tables.

My desks are in rows, but rows of three all facing in to a single aisle so that each row of three kids is facing another row of three kids. I can (and do) stand at either end of the center aisle and talk. Science teachers have 2-person tables. Some teachers have desks in groups, others rearrange them every day to fit the needs of that lecture. As classes get bigger, straight rows, IME, become more common, because they are the easiest way to keep the attention/monitor the behavior/physically fit large numbers of kids. We work in small groups a lot (2-3 days a week) and I just have the kids move their desks.
Do you have new students come up and introduce themselves if they arrive mid-semester?

No, but when we break into small groups I will introduce them to a group I think they will work well with (“This is Suzie from Indiana, do you all mind if she joins you today?”) and if I see anyone reaching out to the new kid/making friends, I privately compliment them about it later.

Are there a lot of classes where the teacher just stands up front and lectures? That kind of chalk ‘n’ talk is pretty unusual in the UK these days.

In my AP Economics class, I lecture almost everyday–but these are all bright 18 years olds and there is a lot of material to get through–not enough time for more gentle measures. I do try and draw them into the lectures and I let them make all the decisions that don’t really matter (ok, supply and demand of what? Suzie, you pick. Heroin? Ok, Heroin it is. What are some things that could shift the market demand for Heroin? Hello, Mr. Principal!) I use an overhead projector, not a chalkboard. I do not like power points because 1) I want them to see me writing out the graphs and copy them down themselves and 2) I like the give and take of audience reactions–powerpoints feel like presentations, not teaching. Before tests, especially the AP exam, I will often have small groups come in for tutoring and then we all sit around my big desk and they ask the questions and I answer.

In my AP English class, lecture is much less important–basically one “teachery” lecture per book to discuss the author and time period. And at the beginning of the year there is more straight lecturing about how to write AP essays–I’m basically teaching them a specialized vocabulary (in English, I joke I teach everything in 6 weeks and then review the rest of the year). Once the year is settled in, it’s about 10% lecture, 25% whole-class discussion, 40% small group work and 25% individual seat work (mostly in-class essays, though sometimes I have them work on something silently for 15 minutes, then discuss it in small groups for 20 min, then we all discuss it together for 15 min).

Does the class get up and start packing up when the bell rings, even if the teacher’s in mid-sentence? And, if so, does the teacher often plan their lessons so badly that they finish in the middle of a topic?

This varies by class and teacher. In econ, I generally lecture up until the bell but if I finish early I will stop and let them chit-chat. I think them knowing that I will stop if I have nothing else to say helps because they know I don’t just talk to hear the sound of my own voice. In English, we are usually either having a whole class discussion or small group work: if it’s the former, I expect them to all stay quiet until whoever is speaking finishes, and then I dismiss: if it’s small group work, they know where to turn it in as they leave. Kids who work quickly may be done already and packed up: kids who work more slowly (or who didn’t do the reading) may be scrambling a bit.

Can non-students often wander onto school grounds, like Seth Rogen does to his GF in Pineapple Express, or Oz does in Buffy before he rejoins the school?

Technically, no. In practice, it does happen, but you have to know enough to get in through a side door.
One other thing you didn’t ask:

The number one things TV gets wrong, IME, are class size and student load. Class size varies, of course, but many places it’s 30ish to a class–something that TV doesn’t show. More importantly, I think, though, is the fact that a teacher is usually responsible for 120-180 kids in a semester. TV always shows a teacher with one class. What is it like in the UK?

Another question about the UK: in one thread, I believe you said that if you teach “maths”, you said you teach different things every year? Why is that? Does everyone do that in the UK? Personally, I would find it very frustrating–the first few years I taught AP English, for example, it was brutal–I was working 70 hours a week choreographing a complex course. It was only worth it, frankly, because I felt like I was investing in something, building something. Plus, I learned from my mistakes each year (and I made so many at the beginning!) How does it work in the UK?

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Nope. You are in no position to bargain, either. You have no cards. We control you on campus whether you like it or not.

It’s a cheap power trip, but as cheap power trips go, it’s a good one. :smiley:

46

In my high school (graduated 1999) in Southern California, we still had the wooden desks with the small surfaces. In a few classes, such as history or English (but not all my history and English classes), we had round tables that sat four people. The people you sat with were the people you did all group work with for that year.

One thing in my high school experience that doesn’t match TV high school is the set-up of the school itself. Being Southern California, our school was set up in an open square shape. Most of the classroom doors led directly to the outside; there were no hallways to wander down. Lockers were set up outside in multiple rows. The center of the school was a large concrete area lined with trees and grass called the quad. There was no school cafeteria that you could eat in. Everybody ate in the quad or in classrooms.

47

I know, but that control is shared by the other teachers. You are given a certain number of minutes to exercise that control. The bell signals that your time is up and control is passed to the next teacher. Considering there is also the type of teacher who exercises their control by being a dick if the student is late, the bell should mean get up and go whether teacher is finished or not.

48

1 year out of High School here.

This depends on teacher, room (more below) and class. I can only think of a few that had actual desks in a row, most of them had them in more of a “table” format (6-7 desks facing towards each other), a lot of them did have what you’re asking in spirit though. The Western Civilization room had long tables chained together facing towards the front. Science was different, almost all the science rooms had “outcroppings” with 4 people to a table facing both directions.

When I say room, well, my school was actually two completely different schools in one (though we shared sports and a couple basic classes like PE), we actually didn’t have enough rooms so a few teachers were “nomad” teachers as we called them who were forced to teach in a different room every couple periods, some teachers preferred it one way (my English teacher senior year had his first period make tables out of the desks and then had our period return them to the next teacher’s row preference before we left) but oftentimes it was dictated by which teacher “owned” (had their office in) the room you were in.

N/A Our school was test in (though public) the only way you could come in “late” was after another student left and even then only after the beginning of the year. The only student I know of that came in their sophomore year form Maryland, but I don’t recall having her in any of my classes that year so I’m not sure, I imagine it depended on instructor.

I’m curious about how they do it in the UK, exclusively lecture? No, not really, but I’m wondering if perhaps we’re more similar here than we’re realizing. The movie/TV portrayal is really lecture centric, we’re certainly not like that (or rather, we weren’t). The closest class I had to that was History/Government, and even then it had quite a lot of “does anyone know why <x> happened?” Or somesuch.

We only did that if the next class had a test or something that really required us to be their exactly on time, and in that case we usually told the teacher “I have something next period so I REALLY need to leave the second the bell rings.” Usually though, the teachers understood and they’d finish what they were saying while we packed up. The reason we didn’t leave immediately though was because:

  1. We knew the teachers would just make our lives hell.
  2. The other teachers can’t punish us for tardiness if it’s not our faults, and the teachers who abused the “past the bell” thing usually just ended up getting chewed out by other teachers (or, more creatively, have students from their next class held past the bell if the students agreed just to get back at that teacher), so we knew we’d get vindication either way.

The only exception was the chemistry teacher everyone hated (there’s actually a parent group entirely dedicated to her firing), no one gave a damn about her and no one learned anything from her class anyway so out the door as soon as possible for that class.

We had a closed campus, but you could generally wander around if you knew the double-secret entrances that weren’t really watched, this got harder my senior year after a rash of fire-alarm pranks though.

You technically did, but if you were an okay kid (read: not known as a troublemaker by the monitors) you could usually get around without it. It was fairly trivial to get a pass though. Usually you got a blue slip of paper that was filled out, but that was only usually if you were going to the office or something where you knew they’d check, otherwise you used the teacher’s ID, or just wandered around and didn’t care. Some kids like me just kept an old hall pass since the monitors didn’t really look at your hall pass so much as whether or not you were carrying a blue slip of paper in your hand.

Heh, my school tried this, it failed horribly. You see, when you get a school full of smart kids (test-in) and try to force them to do something like that they start scouring the school codes. We found out they couldn’t require us to display our student matriculation number which was on the ID so they had to get rid of them, they haven’t brought them back in the intervening 3 years so I think we won that one.

49

The proper response for the student in that situation is to make both teachers aware of the problem, then shut up. We will work it out, and if the student gets in the middle, they’ll just get in the way. Most of the time, sheer professionalism makes sure teachers don’t make a habit of making students late for their next class, but sometimes shit happens. If you are going to be late, ask me to write you a pass. But don’t denigrate my lesson by disrupting it by packing or bolting. That just pisses me off.

50

My school is just one building, so no one’s doing a marathon to their next class. I try to be aware of time passing, but I will let students ask questions/clarify assignments after class, and then write them a pass to make sure they don’t get into trouble for being tardy wherever they’re headed. As far as holding an entire class to prove a point, that’s stupid. Respect isn’t earned in the last 10 seconds of class.

51

I’ve done it–not often, but once a year or so, I’ll hold a group. I’m a pretty lax disciplinarian, most of the time, but one of my iron rules is that when the PA system goes on or I call for attention, they be quiet at once. I think it’s a safety thing–sometimes there is important information on the PA or for me to pass on, and I am not going to yell at them repeatedly to get their attention. So every once in a while, usually in September, I’ll have some group that won’t quiet down right at the end of class and are slow to respond when I tell them to be quiet. When that happens, I keep them in their seats until they’ve been silent and respectful for about 10 seconds, and if that takes us past the bell, it takes us past the bell. I don’t think I’ve ever had to do it twice, and 10 seconds never made anyone late.

That said, holding a kid for instruction to the point that they would be tardy for their next class is considered very unprofessional in our school–I wouldn’t do it unless I had a kid having a complete melt-down or some other sort of emergency. And in any case, I need the full five minutes between classes to get organized for the next wave!

52

Our passing periods were only 3-5 minutes. Apparently the administration was started putting pressure on teachers to wrap up and let their students leave at the bell. Some teachers hapitually kept students late which resulted in them being late their next class then that teacher would call the office to confirm/complain, and the office would need to call the first teacher. They got sick of that. We students gleamed all kinds of info about staff disagreements and other stuff that “didn’t concern us”. :slight_smile:

53

Actually a fair amount. Of both the typing and memories of the teacher.

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A quick tangential question for those who had experience with those combi-chair + small right-hand writing surface things… were there left-hand versions?

(NZ classrooms IME all had separated chairs and desks, and being a leftie I’ve always wondered how the older US style worked for us southpaws). :slight_smile:

55

Yeah, I think I saw a few of those left-hand desks, but not enough given how many people are left-handed.

56

We had plastic versions of these in some classrooms in the late 1980s in Austin, Texas. My best friend in high school was left-handed. There were usually four or five lefty versions of those desks in a classroom of about 30. My buddy, though, had long sussed out how to write lefty on a righty desk. It looked awkward as hell and his handwriting sucked, but he never got relegated to a certain seat; he sat wherever he wanted.

silenus, not sure if you’re taking the piss on purpose, but I think that way of thinking is pretty messed up. Manda JO’s “ten-second” thing is okay by me, but as a middle school teacher, I was always amazed at the things we expected our students to do between classes. Go to your locker, take a bathroom break, briefly socialize, sometimes run errands/messages for us… all in a few minutes. Half of us were rigid about passes during class time (and for good reason - it wasn’t terribly safe for us to have kids randomly roaming the halls). I took it as part of my job to be done in time for the class transition. I was a terrible classroom manager initially but I became quite good at it, and I never got derailed or sidetracked for more than a few minutes a class period.

As a college prof I always make sure that I end, giving my students at least 10-15 minutes before the start of the next class. I see it as my job to manage the time during the instructional period. I’d be pissed if a colleague held students beyond the bell (causing them to be late for my class), and quite frankly I’m not interested in having a conversation about why they can’t get their lesson wrapped up at the end of instructional period. A late pass doesn’t buy back the time that’s been lost. That was true when I was a K-12 teacher and now at the university level.

57

  1. College is different from high school, for rather obvious reasons, mostly having to do with the fact that the college student can simply get up and walk out, without consequence. :wink:

  2. I don’t think that any of the people in here (myself included) who have talked about requiring students work to the bell is an advocate of simply keeping those students for lengthy periods after the bell rings. If, for example, my class is still working when the bell rings, I might expend an added 15 sec. to wrap it up, but I’ll certainly try to get the students on their way as fast as possible, and if need be will write a pass for anyone who is likely to be late, if they think to ask.

What we are saying, though, is that we have no intention of letting students steal time away from learning for everyone simply because they aren’t interested, and prefer to pack it in early. Here’s what happens when you start letting that happen: they start packing it in earlier, and earlier. If you don’t watch out, you end up with the sort of class I still see all too frequently, where the students spend 5 minutes standing all lined up at the door, waiting to leave right as the bell goes. Take that 5 minutes, multiply it by 180 days, and you are simply letting wayyyyyy too much instructional time be stolen from your class.

The key, of course, is to make the things you are doing interesting enough that the majority of the class aren’t interested in just packing things up early. If the only things you are doing five minutes from the bell are either lecturing or seatwork, that’s not going to cut it.

And if, on one or two occasions during the year, I have to make a point about what my expectations are by holding the jack-in-the-boxes in their seats a few seconds after the bell rings, I think they can handle that in the grand scheme of things. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I was in high school in the 90s, and showering after gym or swim class was standard. Have things really changed that much already?

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Are you? Nobody asked me to do post about British schools, so I didn’t realise anyone was waiting for me to do that.

It’s a little difficult to make comparisons, because our secondary schooling goes up to 16, not 18. After 16, some schools have sixth forms within them, but the kids will (usually) be treated very differently than they will when they’re a younger student. A lot of kids go on to sixth form colleges, technical colleges and so on, where there will be lots of adult students as well as teenagers, lots of part-time teachers, some evening courses and so on, and all in all it’s more like a very small university than a school.

So some things that are true for secondary schools are not true for post-16 education, and post-16 education really does vary too much for me to generalise about it. BTW, in the UK when we say college we generally don’t mean university - we mean sixth form colleges, where you do your A levels or vocational courses (like the last two years of high school) or other tertiary colleges where you do courses at an older age, but below university level.

Anyway: in secondary schools, the desks aren’t in rows most of the time. Some teachers do that, but it’s rare; what’s even rarer is to have seperate, individual desks in rows (the way it is in the movies), rather than rows of paired tables. Science labs have special worktops and workbenches, of course, as do some art classrooms, while drama, design technology (woodwork etc), IT and music classrooms have furniture that fits their subjects rather than ordinary desks and chairs (this is the same in the US, I guess).

Chalk and talk is so heavily frowned upon that only a few older teachers in some subjects do it.

Actually, I’ve never seen it in secondary school at all, and only one teacher at my vening classes was like that. Instead there’s lots of group work and pair work, different ways of asking the class questions, multimedia work and so on. The kids will have worksheets or specific tasks to complete. The teacher will inevitably spend some of the time standing at the front giving instructions and explaining things, but it’s not like uni where you listen to that and write it down or make notes on what’s being said.

Only really terribly behaved classes with a terrible teacher would get up and leave as soon as the bell goes. You have to wait till the teacher dismisses you. It’s not that big a deal if the class then leaves a minute or two late.

What surprises me about the American lessons depicted in the media is not so much leaving on the bell, but leaving so rudely, and often leaving completely mid-topic or mid-sentence. Unless the lesson’s gone wrong, here you’d have a lesson that has a special review task (the plenary) arranged for the last few minutes, and then the teacher would tell the students to start packing up. Classes at college might be different.

Non-students can’t just wander into the grounds, but then the schools are all what seems to be called closed campus, and the kids wear uniforms, so wandering strangers would stand out more anyway. Again, that’s for secondary schools, not colleges, which (IME) anyone can wander into if they feel like it.

The schools I teach in also require their students to have permission slips to be out of class during lesson time. I can’t remember if that was the case when I was at school myself, but it’s certainly true in all the places I’ve taught.

There aren’t specific hall monitors during lesson time, but there’ll be the occasional member of staff around who’ll notice a child not where they’re supposed to be. Some schools have hall monitors at break times (usually teachers or support staff), but not all. In a couple of schools where I’ve worked or trained, kids weren’t allowed in the building at break and lunchtime anyway.

60

I was in high school in the 90s too and showering after gym was strictly prohibited (the showers weren’t even turned on). I think this is definitely a YMMV thing, but everything I’ve read make showers sound like a thing of the past by the 90s.