I clearly was asking about what to do NOW, man, you know that. Mark Carney hasn’t insulted Trump.
Do you have an actual answer to my question?
What has dropped the likelihood of the US attacking us from fairly significant to “will only happen if there is a depression-level economic collapse” is Iran. The Iran fiasco has severely weakened Trump’s position with regards to foreign policy and the use of force.
That’s actually a fair question.
But I think there’s another question that has to be answered first.
If we don’t negotiate, then what’s the plan?
Saying “the U.S. can’t be trusted” isn’t a strategy. Every country negotiates with countries whose interests don’t perfectly align with their own. That’s why agreements contain dispute resolution, enforcement mechanisms, and reciprocal obligations. They aren’t built on trust alone.
In my own work, I tell people that in the age of AI they need to be able to articulate the value they bring to the organization. If they can’t explain why they’re valuable, someone else will define their value for them or assume they don’t have any.
How are countries different?
Negotiation is the opportunity to demonstrate your value. Canada brings secure energy, critical minerals, food, technology, and one of the world’s largest trading relationships. The U.S. brings access to the world’s largest economy. Both sides have leverage because both sides have value.
Will either side get everything it wants? Of course not. That’s why it’s called a negotiation. And to expect things to remain the way they were previously is unrealistic.
But you can’t make a deal if you refuse to sit at the table. If you don’t articulate the value you bring, you shouldn’t be surprised if the other side doesn’t recognize it.
So if someone believes no deal is possible, I’d genuinely like to hear the alternative. Is the plan simply to accept permanent tariffs and an increasingly uncertain trading relationship? Because that’s a policy choice too. And before you go all ‘New…World…Order’ on me, China just put a 73% tariffs on peas (I personally wouldn’t have thought peas were such a big deal, but its worth about a billion a year!).
Negotiating may not succeed, but refusing to negotiate guarantees that nothing changes.
Why do you think Canada refuses to negotiate? Its universally known that it’s Trump that is refusing to negotiate?
I started looking through articles, but I think it best that someone making the claim should be the one to back it up.
But lets pretend that is true. Let’s pretend the Digital Services tax didn’t get cancelled until the last second and that Doug Ford didn’t stick a fork in Trump’s eye with his ad derailing talks for 5-6 months, let’s pretend that Carney isn’t playing games with aircraft, cozying up to China, making BS announcements during key negotiations between the US/Israel/Palestinians derailing talks, etc.
Let’s pretend all that didn’t happen and that Trump flat out is refusing to negotiate. Then it is up to Carney, as the Prime Minister, to get Trump on the phone and make him negotiate. Or, if he can’t do that to find someone who can, or find someone on the US side who has influence that can. That is his job. I’d expect the Trump Whisperer to be able to at least do that.
Canada rescinds digital services tax to advance broader trade negotiations with the United States.
Canada removed that to open talks. Didn’t work. Trump’s word meant nothing.
IIRC the ad was pleading FOR trade and talks, you must have watched a different ad. Easy mistake.
What games? Please tell us.
Do you want China to tariff our canola? Carney brought back China to our table by allowing 49,000 of their electric cars. An easy deal, that favoured Saskatchewan over Ontario. Trump ran over there a month later trying to secure his own deal that would’ve dwarfed ours.
Earnestly no clue to what you are saying here. Canada hasn’t made any unilateral moves in regards to Israel/Palestine.
We do not need to pretend. According to all sources Trump’s team are stalling and playing games. We hoped to have a deal on Canada Day. Nope.
It might be difficult to accept, but Trump isn’t wanting a deal. If he ever signs a deal. He’ll break it.
- Should have removed it sooner.
- Using Reagan’s words out of context. Reagan had just put tariffs on Japan.
- Buying the F35 or not? Canada committed and now is waffling. Who is the ‘partner’ not keeping agreements?
- China dropped tariffs on a number of products for buying the ‘security threat’ cars that both Canada and the US didn’t want here. Now China has added back tariffs on Peas at 73%.
- He, thankfully, has recognized the state of Palestine last September further pissing off Trump. Palestine has disputed control, no real border, no democratic legitimacy, and no guarantee it won’t be just another terrorist state. Thankfully, when Alberta declares independence, it will have all that and a pissed off Trump just waiting to recognize us. Thank you, Mark.
- Do you read your own citations? You think that a ‘deal’ is just if you win all the points you want. The US wants to renegotiate the deal. It has already been having talks with Mexico. None with Canada. IT IS UP TO CARNEY TO CONVICE TRUMP TO INCLUDE CANADA. That is his job. If he can’t then the US will continue to do what they want. Again, what is the alternative?
"Rather than ripping up the agreement, the Trump administration signalled Wednesday that it wants to renegotiate some of its terms.
“The United States will continue to engage with Mexico and Canada to address the agreement’s shortcomings and our trade deficits with these countries,” said U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer in a statement.
The food is terrible! And the portions are too small!
Admit it. You had no idea that the digital services tax had been removed.
You’re not understanding. Trump cannot be convinced of anything. And even if he could be, he’d change his mind the next day. Since you’re fond of all caps:
TRUMP CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO NEGOTIATE ANYTHING IN GOOD FAITH. IT’S A WASTE OF TIME TO EVEN TRY.
So if I am to understand you, Carney should have:
- pre-removed the Digital Services tax… before he removed the Digital Services tax. This hyper (p)reaction would’ve earned Canada extra bonus points.
- Advocated for trade with the US, but only in some unnamed manner that pleases Trump, not displeases him (as Reagan’s words did).
- Bought EVEN MORE F35’s (hell, perhaps solely, and only F35’s) instead of only the 72-88 F35’s we have decided to buy from the US.
- Outright refused to deal with China’s EV’s and just swallow the Canola tariff because Canada trading with China displeases Trump. (Only Trump is allowed to trade with China, I guess)
- Brake away from Portugal, the UK, Australia, Andorra, Malta, Luxembourg, Monaco, France, and San Marino. All of whom coordinated this response multi-laterally “as part of a coordinated international effort to preserve the possibility of a two-state solution”.
- and finally. Just convince Trump to include Canada. A blanket “The US wants to renegotiate the deal.” and " IT IS UP TO CARNEY".
Well I guess Carney’s US trade and negotiating team are all a bunch of failures then, eh? Funny how such a wide diverse stretch of people from all corners of Canada and all sectors (from Newfoundland Trade Unionists, to Alberta Oil and Gas CEO’s) cannot get Carney to deal with Trump. Hell, I even count a total of THREE former leaders of the Federal Tories in his team: Erin O’Toole, Jean Charest, and Lisa Raitt.
You’d think that these three former leaders of the Conservatives (three legit political partisans from the CPC) would alert Canadians to how Carney is single-handedly ruining their efforts to trade with Trump.
Pardon me, but I feel that your advice to Carney is just to be an apparatchik to any of Trump’s fancy. This is kinda worse then being a vassel state to the US, but directly to Trump. Do you honestly think Canadians would be pleased with these actions? Do you honestly think that voters would agree with any of your advice?
Carney didn’t create CUSMA or Nafta. In fact, Trump did CUSMA, and we were, in fact, able to get a deal with him contrary to others unproven assertions in this thread. So, yes, the current bunch of clowns are a bunch of failures for allowing that same deal Carney is crowing over in your link to be in jeopardy.
They ARE negotiating. The plan is what it would be under any party; try to push off the worst until a better President is in office, if that ever happens.
That’s not true. Everyone knows an intelligent party would just mumble mumble and then Trump would be happy to sign a trade deal.
So, that’s the plan? Carney is pushing the CUSMA (NAFTA) deal as a great deal for Canada. Better than any other deal anyone else has (other than Mexico I guess). A deal put together by his predecessor, Troodledum and apparently a ‘better’ president. Yet, for some reason that is in jeopardy, and we have other tariffs currently placed on Canada by the US. His grand deal with China is now in jeopardy as China has started reintroducing tariffs.
Trump claimed USMCA was the best deal ever created. Just a few years later, Trump claims it is the worst deal ever and the US doesn’t need anything from Canada.
Which is it? Negotiating with Trump is like discussing philosophy with a toddler.
Yes. After he negotiated it.
Just a few years later, Trump claims it is the worst deal ever and the US doesn’t need anything from Canada.
That’s how many negotiators anchor a negotiation.
You don’t begin by telling the other side they’re in a strong position and that you’re happy with the current arrangement. You begin by saying the existing deal isn’t good enough and that you’re prepared to walk away if necessary. That’s Trump’s playbook.
In fact, when USMCA replaced NAFTA, Trump described the new agreement as “the most important trade deal we’ve ever made,” while calling NAFTA “perhaps the worst trade deal ever made.” Sound familiar?
Donald Trump says new trade deal is 'most important ever
The point is that he’s remarkably consistent in his negotiating style.
Personally, I prefer collaborative negotiations where both sides leave better off. Trump clearly prefers a harder approach. But if that’s the person you’re negotiating with, pretending that’s not how he operates doesn’t help. Attributing ‘toddlerhood’ to his method just pisses him off.
The real question isn’t whether Trump is an aggressive negotiator, we already know he is. The question is whether Canada understands that strategy well enough to negotiate effectively in return, or if the Liberals are more concerned with performing for the local audience than making a deal to benefit all Canadians.
Yes, remarkably consistent like:
“I get everything, you get nothing”
Followed by:
“I may have signed an agreement, but I’ll rip up my agreement and put 100% tariffs on you if you don’t give me this other thing I just thought of”
It’s pointless. He’s not an “aggressive negotiator”. He’s an unreliable, untrustworthy, and frankly a deranged negotiator.
You seem to think Pollievre could do better in your imaginary world. Those of us with eyes and ears know he could not.
I am honestly trying to understand what your point is here and I just can’t make heads or tails of it. You seem to be contradicting your own statements in other posts, but, again, it’s impossible to really know.
Well, really, he’s not a negotiator at all. Now, Rick Harrison on “Pawn Stars”—he’s a negotiator. He’ll give a little to get the object that he wants, the seller will give a little to get some cash, the two will agree somewhere between the seller’s original asking price and Rick’s opening offer.
Trump can’t do that because he’s never done that. With him, it’s always, “Here’s the deal; take it or leave it.” When the other party tries to treat the deal as a normal negotiation, and comes back with a counter-offer or a modification of some sort, Trump seems to have no clue what to do.
.
I think you’re confusing “difficult to negotiate with” and “impossible to negotiate with.”
If Trump were incapable of negotiating, there would be no USMCA, no revised KORUS agreement with South Korea, no Phase One trade deal with China, and no Abraham Accords. Whether you think those were good or bad agreements is beside the point, they were negotiated agreements. You don’t have to like that style, but pretending it doesn’t exist doesn’t change it.
If you start from the position that “he can’t be negotiated with,” then you’ve already decided that no agreement is possible. At that point you’re not negotiating, you’ve chosen to do nothing and have to accept what the other is offering, if anything.
Negotiation isn’t about liking the person across the table. It’s about understanding what motivates them, identifying where your interests overlap, and finding enough common ground to reach an agreement.
That’s what Mark Carney should be judged on. During the election, people claimed that his international experience, economic background, and relationships made him uniquely qualified to deal with someone like Trump. If that was one of the reasons Canadians elected him, then it’s entirely reasonable to ask whether that approach is producing results.
If the answer is that Trump simply can’t be negotiated with, then what exactly was the advantage Carney was supposed to bring? He hasn’t protected us from tariffs, he has jeopardized the current CUSMA agreement, and his deals with other countries are mostly paper exercises announcing numerous partnerships, negotiations, and investment initiatives. My question is much simpler: which of these have already produced measurable increases in Canadian exports, investment, GDP, or government revenue that offset the loss of trade with the US? Replacing even a small fraction of that trade with more distant markets takes enormous time, effort, and cost.
Not rolling over and giving Trump everything he wanted, which is what the electorate was afraid Pollievre was all set to do.
Despite some very loud folks who hate him with a passion only matched by their former hatred of Trudeau, Carney is still polling at very high approval rates. Yes, some National Post columnists sure think he’s terrible, and I bet a bunch of guys at the bar in Drayton Valley hate him, but there you go - each to their own.
Mark Carney Approval Ratings Today: Carney’s Popularity Remains Intact | Opinions And Ratings
And the conglomerate of polls at 338 Canada is still showing the approve/disapprove of our current government at +21