How should the United States have responded to Pearl Harbor?

[Sorry for the TLDR, but the crux of the debate is straightforwardly expressed in the thread title.]

In his paper “Pearl Harbor: Military Inconvenience, Political Disaster,” Ohio State political science professor John S. Mueller makes the argument(requires JSTOR) that the U.S. should have responded to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor with a policy of cold war rather than hot–that is,

Mueller notes that unlike Germany, which could not be contained because it possessed the will and capacity to invade France, “Japan could not invade and defeat the United States.” Moreover, Japan–unlike Germany–was at that time bogged down in a costly continental war in China, which provided fertile opportunity for a policy of harassment.

Mueller notes that the policy of containment worked against the Soviet Union; and that, although a cataclysmic hot war might have sped up the process of the dissolution of the USSR, few people think such a conflict would have been worthwhile.

Would such a policy have worked against Japan? Mueller thinks so:

  • The Japanese were vastly overextended and bogged down by their intervention in China, which they could not possibly win
  • By 1941, military spending had soared to 38% of Japanese economic output, the country couldn’t import needed raw materials to keep up with military production, and was running into labor shortages
  • Despite gains in Southeast Asia (including some important oil fields in the Dutch East Indies), the Japanese inspired such hatred among conquered peoples to guarantee enormous occupation costs
  • Prewar studies showed that even with access to conquered oil fields, the Japanese would face a major oil crisis within a few years due to the inadequacy of those resources and Japan’s inability to effectively exploit them (lack of tanker fleet, not enough time to get fields into production)
  • Japan had a grossly inadequate merchant fleet, making it especially vulnerable to economic containment
  • In terms of domestic politics, there were elements among the senior leadership that weren’t totally on board with Japan’s militaristic direction (including the Emperor); quite possibly with time to let Japan’s ill-advised policies play out, moderate voices would have become ascendant.

In short, Japan was a more auspicious target for a containment policy than the Soviet Union.

What about the gains of the Pacific War? Mueller finds these questionable. Gaining a strong democratic ally in the new Japan “can, I suppose, be accounted a gain, but it cannot be entirely irrelevant to point out that in order to achieve the liberalization of Japan it was necessary to depopulate the country by some two million souls” [to say nothing of American lives lost]. Nor was postwar Asia particularly stable or peaceful simply on account of knocking out imperial Japan. “Rather, it was the scene of bloody civil and international war, economic and social mismanagement often of spectacular proportions, and occasionally outright genocide.”

As for what Mueller agrees may have been the biggest single cause of the war, Japan’s occupation of China, Mueller thinks it unlikely that China could have been much worse off in Japanese hands even if containment had not forced a Japanese withdrawal:

To sum up:

  • The attack on Pearl Harbor was an incredibly lucky and well-landed blow by the Japanese, but not a harbinger of invasion of the United States. The US was unprepared for Pearl Harbor per se but exceeded Japan in overall industrial capability by almost comical proportions, and the Japanese posed virtually no threat to the US homeland.
  • Japan was in fairly desperate straits at the time of the attack, a situation that only worsened thereafter
  • The end of the Japanese empire could have been brought about at much lower cost to the United States through a more patient policy of aggressive containment
  • Had such a policy failed, it’s not clear that Asia in general, and China in particular, would have been much worse off than they were in the actual postwar 20th century
  • In any event, it is questionable whether the US gains in the region merited the enormous loss of life and treasure on our side (to say nothing of the collateral damage to the region and to the Japanese people)

Granting that hindsight is 20/20 and that the proposed containment policy may well have been politically unthinkable in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor, what say you, O ye students of WWII and military history? Is the good doctor onto something here or is he full of shit?

I guess professors sometimes have to publish dumb ideas to get attention.

Seriously, is there any better justification for war than to be sneak-attacked for no really good reason?

Such a move would have been politically unacceptable given then act of war Japan had just perpetrated, followed by their attacks on American allies elsewhere in the Pacific. It would be akin to Britain and France letting Germany conquer Poland without declaring war.

even if hot war was declared and not aggressively pursued, to minimize losses, it still wouldn’t go politically.

the Doolittle Raid was to show how the country thought.

Yeah, this is the big thing the professor misses. The main reason to respond with “hot” force when attacked is so that everyone will know that, if attacked, you will respond with force.

The question isn’t whether the war was justified. The question is whether hot war (indeed, total war) was the best way to advance US interests in light of other available options.

Nobody would dispute that. The question is whether all out war was the better strategy rather than a robust containment.

This part doesn’t make sense. Germany was no more able to take the war to America than Japan was, and why should we care more about the people of France than we cared about the people of South-East Asia? Also, almost all of the weaknesses he ascribes to the Japanese seem equally applicable to Germany. Overextended? Check. Overspent on military? Check. Hated by the people whose countries they had invaded? Double check. Not enough oil? Check. Division in the upper ranks of the countries leadership? Check. Lack of a substantial navy? Check.

Additionally, he talks about the civil war and genocides that occurred in Asia after the fall of the Japanese Empire as an argument for containment - except that we saw civil wars and genocide after the fall of the Soviet Union, too.

There may be a good argument to be made that it would have been in the US’s best interest to sit back and let Japan exhaust itself slaughtering its neighbors, but he needs to do more work showing why we shouldn’t have done the same thing with the Nazis.

This is what I was going to say. Even if everything the professor said is 100% correct, it doesn’t matter. The U.S. had to go to war.

Economic warfare strategies can be a good idea. If an enemy country hasn’t declared war against you and you have an economic advantage over them, it makes sense to try to keep the conflict at an economic rather than a military level. This was the strategy the United States used against the Soviet Union during the cold war and used against Japan prior to Pearl Harbor.

But trying to continue to use economic war against an enemy that is using military force against you? That’s just nonsense. You can’t maintain economic war against an enemy that’s shooting at you. You have to start shooting back.

Here’s a metaphorical equivalent. You are debating some topic with another person. You’re a better debater than he is. So it’s in your interest to keep the argument verbal rather than start a fistfight. But if the fistfight starts anyway, you’d be a fool to try to continue your verbal argument while the other guy is punching you in the face. Once the conflict has gone to a higher level, you have to fight it on that level or lose the fight.

[QUOTE=Donald Rump]
Mueller notes that unlike Germany, which could not be contained because it possessed the will and capacity to invade France, “Japan could not invade and defeat the United States.” Moreover, Japan–unlike Germany–was at that time bogged down in a costly continental war in China, which provided fertile opportunity for a policy of harassment.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, didn’t read the article you linked too, but just based on this alone this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Japan never wanted to invade or conquer the US. Germany didn’t have that ability either. That wasn’t the point of the war. Both Japan and Germany wanted a free hand without interference to build up their own empires. Japan attack the US as part of a strategy of attacking and taking basically the Pacific rim, south east Asia and Australia, all to gain access to the resources they had. This was a direct threat to the US’s strategic objectives in the region, which is why even before the attack on Pearl Harbor the US had already put Japan under an oil embargo. Allowing the Japanese a free hand, which seems to be what this guy is suggesting, would be completely against the US’s best interests, even leaving aside that they attacked our Navy in a time of peace and killed several thousand service men.

Total horseshit. Even if you could have gotten that through politically, there was no way to contain the Japanese once they had destroyed our fleet. As they in fact did, they would have been free to take most of the Pacific rim, and without the US to combat them they would have probably taken Australia and consolidated their position, expanding into China and south east Asia and threatening India. How anyone who could look at a map and understands the first thing about what trade is could make such a ridiculous assertion is beyond me. It would have been a VERY bad idea, with no way for the US to contain anything Japan did without resorting to ‘hot’ war immediately. Hell, as it was it was a near run thing, at least in the early days, with the US winning often because of luck and intelligence interception instead of via overwhelming force.

Totally full of shit based on what you are saying. Again, didn’t have time to read your link, but based on what you are saying this guy doesn’t sound like he has any clue what he’s talking about from a historical perspective.

What specific follow-on actions by the Japanese was the forceful response meant to deter, and how was preventing those actions worth the cost of the Pacific War? The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because they could–but that ability relied on a one-time-only element of surprise. Thereafter, they had no ability to threaten the US homeland directly. US commercial shipping to Asia was at risk whether we responded to Pearl Harbor via outright war or a policy of containment in any case.

Moreover, if credibility and revenge is important, why not launch the mother of all punitive raids, and then resort to a policy of containment? Why was total war the best response to Pearl Harbor and to Japanese imperialism in general?

I think that’s a fair point. I don’t actually know what Mueller has to say about the European war. I am hoping the thread sticks to the Pacific though.

I’m seeing several posts echoing this sentiment. I understand this is a theoretical discussion, similar to asking whether the 2nd amendment should be repealed. It is politically inconceivable that the 2nd amendment will be repealed in the U.S., but one can ask in principle whether it should be. If people aren’t interested in debating the theoretical merits of a containment policy towards Japan, feel free to pass.

Moreover, I think this claim is dubious. After the Beirut attacks, Reagan engaged in some punitive exercises but conspicuously did not escalate the situation into, say, US occupation of Lebanon. Pearl Harbor was considerably more dramatic than what happened in Beirut, but I don’t find it inconceivable that with careful handling by an able president, the push for total war could have been resisted. As I mention in an earlier post, we could instead have prepared for and launched some massive punitive raid killing 30,000 Japanese, and then pulled back into a containment stance.

If we had opted for containment:

  1. The US probably would have been attacked again, if for no other reason than to destroy the aircraft carriers that escaped.
  2. The Japanese occupation of China as it happened resulted in the deaths of about 20 million Chinese, according to some estimates. Had we opted for a decades-long containment of Japan, the death toll would have been horrifying as opposed to simply disgusting.
  3. As far as U.S. interests go, the war in the Pacific was very costly, but one could hardly imagine a better result for U.S. interests. The US-Japan alliance is solid as granite, part of Korea is free and again a strong US ally, and our relations with our most notable competitor in the world today, China, is actually fairly good, all things considered.

The criticism that Asia hasn’t been all that great I believe is off topic, because the war really concerned Northeast Asia. The Korean War was, I suppose, inevitable given the outcome of WW2, but beyond that, that region (NEA) has been quite stable for 50 years. The civil war and instability in Southeast Asia doesn’t seem to have anything to do with us going to war with Japan: is he seriously saying that if we had contained Japan instead of attacked, that the Khymer Rouge wouldn’t have gone murderously bonkers? WTF do those things have to do with war against Japan?

The idea that attacking Japan led to the rise of Mao just isn’t plausible at all. It wasn’t like the US was aiding Mao’s insurgency pre-1945.

Mueller’s argument though is that the Pearl Harbor attack was borne of Japanese desperation. They knew they were badly outmatched by the US, and they rather pitifully thought that a) the attack would meaningfully reduce America’s naval power in the Pacific, and b) the attack might possibly stun America into unwillingness to fight such a terrible foe as the Japanese (oops–comically bad miscalculation on their part).

After using up the element of surprise, the Japanese had very limited ability to continue “shooting at” us. Yes, they could have threatened US shipping, but that was going to be true whether we went to war or not.

We didn’t have the ability to contain the Japanese until probably late '44 or '45…AFTER we had basically destroyed their fleet and most of their air craft. So, it’s totally unreasonable to believe we could have done this before fighting the war. As for a punitive raid, if the author of the linked article is thinking this way it again shows he has no idea what he’s talking about. Sure, the US wanted revenge for Pearl Harbor, but the wider threat was with Japanese expansion into the Pacific and the threat to our trade and regional stability. If we had been able to inflict some gods awful number of casualties on the Japanese (civilians presumably), it wouldn’t have changed that one bit and would have still posed a threat to the US…a US with no ability to contain anything since, you know, our fleet was destroyed and we would have taken years to rebuild it.

He lost me with “Eh, China turned out kind of shitty anyway.”

Not to mention that Japan also invaded the Philippines the day after Pearl Harbor. Ethics of colonialism aside, that was U.S. territory and guarded by thousands of American troops who were then engaged in pitched ground battles. When you’re under attack by air, sea, and land, any policy of containment has already failed.