Countries like China, Russia, and Iran have arrested Westerners as bargaining chips to win the release of their own citizens.
There’s a great long-form article on one such case here, involving a Canadian diplomat who’s spent two years in Chinese custody:
How do we get these Western citizens out of jail and discourage these regimes from taking more hostages? (Can we really not come up with a creative retaliation?)
“Don’t start no shit, won’t be no shit.”
It’s China that’s retaliating here.
The US doesn’t recognize the ICC, won’t allow soldiers accused of war crimes to be extradited, won’t allow its car crashing “diplomats” to face justice even in allied countries, but expects its laws to have jurisdiction over every square inch of the Earth.
Yeah, there’s gonna be some pushback.
Yeah but what has Canada done to deserve this?
I know Trudeau has other problems but I would have been tempted to break off relations with China over this. Or maybe ban imports from China. Except that I think we have become dependent on imports from China.
I do feel sorry for Canada, because they’re in a shitty no-win situation here. But that situation was created by the US.
Huawei became the world’s largest phone manufacturer. It’s a symbol of China surpassing the US, economically and technologically. So, of course, the US has tried to do a Tonya Harding on it.
Same with Iran. Iranian oil is an alternative to Saudi oil and the petrodollar. Well, we can’t have that now, can we? Hence the sanctions.
It’s all Realpolitik bulshitt, and innocents get burned.
This thread is about hostage diplomacy.
Another example (this one involving an Australian academic imprisoned by Iran):
Canada arrested the Huawei exec and has been holding her for a year and a half.
On a US warrant!
Second Michael tried, second ‘no verdict‘. Hmmm…
I think the shouting matches at the Alaska meeting were China pissed at the US being unwilling to negotiate unless the Michaels are released. I think the Chinese would love to divide US and Canada. And see this as a weak spot in our relations they can perhaps exploit. I think it WOULD greatly benefit whatever plans they have going on.
Just over two years, actually. Arrested in December 2018.
Canada is holding her under the authority of Canada’s Extradition Act. The US has presented a claim that she has prima facie committed bank fraud in the United States. The Canadian court is evaluating that claim, which is turning into one of the longest extradition hearings on record, given the amount of resources the individual is putting into it. Her right to do so, of course, but that is a factor in the length of time it is taking.
The Canadian government has two choices:
disavow its extradition treaty with the United States and ignore its own extradition law, to please China; or,
follow the terms of Canada’s own law, and its treaty obligations with the United States, even if that displeases China.
From my perspective, following option 1 would encourage foreign hostage-taking. It would also end our ability to seek to extradite fugitives who have fled to the States from Canadian arrest warrants.
Following option 2 would respect our own laws, a crucial part of the rule of law, and maintain our extradition treaty with the States, which is of value to Canada, given our proximity and mobility between the two countries.
What does Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau think about the risk of Chinese citizens being detained arbitrarily, when doing business with Canada?
It is really sad that China uses Huawei as it’s poster child. Huawei is deep Chinese military and always has been.
Christ, when I worked in Lehman Brothers Hong Kong, even Lehman’s refused to do business with Huawei. You know how low a bar that was??? The Lehman execs that actually met with Huawei were intimidated that they would be kidnapped and ransomed circa early 1990’s. Do you realize just how intimidating Huawei had to be to faze a Lehman exec used to dealing with Marcos and other strongman dictators?
Color me confused. China could actually pull out some true entreprenurial companies but instead keep insisting on polishing the turd that is Huawei as some kind of fools gold.
That seems like an odd story. What would China need with a ransom? Why were the Lehman execs not afraid of being kidnapped for refusing to do business with Huawei.
As for Huawei being a turd, could we maybe let the actual consumers decide that one, rather than governments?
Consumers are stupid enough to buy their essential infrastructure from hostile militaries disguised as ordinary businesses. Other governments who are the targets of that hostility should be smarter.
Not a very convincing argument. The United States refuses to hand its citizens over to international law courts because it believes those courts do not adhere to basic standards on the rule of law and respecting human rights.
The fact that other countries have responded to this by taking hostages shows these American beliefs are justified.
The International Cricket Council ?
Has the Hague requested any US soldiers?
The immunity was by joint agreement. In no way shape or form was the UK not a party to allowing such staffers to have Diplomatic Immunity. Their counterparts here have the same benefits.
The US has presented a claim that she has prima facie committed bank fraud in the United States. is the opposite of “arbitrarily”.
Here’s a map of the signatories to the ICC.
Every single western country: all the EU, Canada, Australia, Japan. Every single western country bar one. Guess which one that is.
All these countries believe the ICC adheres to basic standards on the rule of law. But the US doesn’t. Odd huh?
Seriously dude?
Countries can choose to waive diplomatic immunity. But I guess the UK system of justice doesn’t meet the required standard…
China has presented a claim that two Canadians have committed espionage. Is this arbitrary or not?
Mod hat on:
Don’t be a jerk. No warning issued.