Chances are good. We (he, actually) were asked yesterday evening and given until this morning to think about it. As this would be our 4th move in SIX years, we’re asking for some terms this time.
Namely that we’re not selling our home since we’d have to pay capital gains and the market just tanked so they had better plan on forking over 8-10K monthly for an apartment. This isn’t as ludicrous as it sounds, it would actually save them money for the first two years as they wouldn’t have to pay the moving expenses and all other crap (points on the mortgage, closing costs on both ends, curtain allowance, etc.) associated with the move.
Here’s the ludicrous request: We’ll only do two years in NYC and then we want Paris. French lessons the whole time to prepare him to take over the Paris practice and me to survive there.
We’ll know for sure in a week or two, but it’s very likely.
Convince me that I’d like Manhattan, because I’m convinced that I live in the nicest place on earth right now. I’ve been there once (for dinner) and wasn’t thrilled…plus where should we live?
Oh, I hate this crap…I was convinced this was our last move. I’m happy here, dammit!
[sub]Okay, it would be fan-tabulous for his career, but I can still sulk.[/sub]
This is the most exciting, dynamic city on earth, and you will be doing your kids a disservice if you pass up the chance to live here for a couple of years.
First things first: $8-10 K/month rents you a seriously kick-ass 3 bedroom. In a nice area, with a river or park view. We’re expensive, but not that expensive. So if the company will fork that over, you’re set.
Second, every single important thing ever eventually happens here. We were too busy to go to Egypt, so we made King Tut come here. Same with the Pope.
In two years, you won’t even begin to dent the museums or other cultural attractions. But I think I can get you an Opera subscription ahead of the waiting list if you want one.
New York is the safest large city in America. Betcha that per capita, we’re safer than your city. And if you live in the kind of neighborhood where rents run to $8 grand, there’s really no crime at all.
Our diversity is our greatest strength. Your kids (and you) will benefit enormously just from interactions with recent immigrants, out and comfortable gay people, rich and poor. They will mature before your eyes as they take the subway to school, bargain for DVD players on Canal St. and generally become New Yorkers. And there is no substitute for the connections you and they will doubtless make while you’re here.
Don’t underestimate our parkland! Though we’re a pretty crowded city, we’ve got plenty of parks – your kids can still play baseball if they want, and you can jog without worrying about stoplights.
More later – I’ve got a meeting. But seriously, you would love the City.
Have you lived in your home for at least two years?
If so, please check this link for more information about the taxation of home sale profits. I just happened to be reading up on this stuff the other day, since I’m likely to sell my home and move to god-knows-where.
Don’t you hate those coffee comercials?
Anyway, Sue, I’m totally jealous. Sounds great. Well, except the New York part. :: puke :: But, even I would do two years in that shithole for the opportunity to move to Paris. Us BADs will miss you tons! Good luck!
For what it’s worth (probably not much): I lived near, not in, NYC for a year, so I can’t say what it’s like to live there but as a weekly visitor during that time – I loved loved loved it. There is so much to do and see and Manhattan has an energy all its own. It is definitely a city, however, so I personally would not be thrilled to raise kids there, but I think it would be a GREAT place to live temporarily (like your situation, a couple of years, and when your kid(s) are pretty small) and just experience it.
I’m curious: What does your husband do, that is taking you from California to NY and then possibly to Paris? Maybe that’s the field I should be in.
We wouldn’t want to buy in NYC if we were just going to leave in 2 years. We definitely wouldn’t buy in Paris and we’d want a place to come back to.
Also, I wasn’t kidding about the housing market tanking here. Three months ago, our neighbors (same size home, smaller lot, less cool stuff) refinanced/reappraised and came up with a nice number.
One month ago, we found out that we needed to take out a home equity loan to pay some of our taxes (did you know that you have to pay capital gains taxes on money you won’t be able to access for FOUR years…some of which you will NEVER get? But that’s a pit thread.) Hence, we had an appraisal done. It came out at 25% less than the nice little number our neighbors had received just two months before. :eek:
Mix in the fact that the interest on the mortgage is the only tax deduction we get. Yes, even the little whipper-snapper isn’t a tax deduction. (Another pit thread.)
Sprinkle in a little “Our next door neighbor has had their house on the market for the past month, just dropped the price $150K and still haven’t had any interest AT ALL.”
Bake with rolling blackouts and mass layoffs in the area (this is shaping up as a nice pit thread w/o the swearing)and it just makes sense to keep the joint.
Hey Sue, if you need someone to house-sit for 7 months to make it a year, let me know. I spend most of my time like 2 streets down from you these days.
Seriously, best of luck whatver you decide. We’ll miss you here if you do go! And Paris is wonderful… I’m jealous!
Hee Hee! Well, sorta. I’ve lived in the suburbs of Baltimore, Baltimore itself, Taipei, Seoul, rural New Jersey, suburban New Jersey and finally, NYC. I’ve spent time enough to decide whether I want to live in SF, Chicago and Paris. So whilst I might be biased, it’s not a bias born of being loyal just because it’s New York. I choose to live here.
If you had posted this thread in ’89, I could not in all fairness have given you the reply that I do today.
Though NY still had it’s good points back then, crime and taxes were high, neighborhoods were physically run down and many of my friends were dying of AIDS. It was not a good time for the City.
These days NY has gone through a real, live renaissance. There are downsides, like having the Gap and Disney Stores and Bed, Bath and Beyond and Starbucks like some anonymous suburb, but you can ignore them, cross the street and go to a real live local shop like NY is supposed to have.
Oh, yeah. And our ISO isn’t calling for rolling blackouts yet.
What specific concerns/questions do you have?
Here are a few of the downsides (even I admit they exist!). The weather, while mostly temperate, is not as nice as you get out there. We get a few pretty cold (0 F) days in winter, and some hot muggy days (>100 F and >100% humidity) in the summer. We get a few decent snowstorms, but rain really isn’t a problem like Seattle.
It’s crowded. NY has added something like a million people in the past decade, and there once again are eight million stories in the Naked City. If you are a claustrophobe or don’t like strangers, this ain’t the place for you.
Our air isn’t as bad as Houston or LA, but it’s not the cleanest in the world, either. In addition to whatever New Jersey sends our way, pollen counts get pretty high in the spring (today, it’s 9.something on whatever 12-point scale they use.)
Taxes are high, especially for non-homeowners, since they skew toward income and sales taxes and away from property taxes.
Giuliani is a dickhead, and getting a cab in midtown in the rain or at 5:00 is impossible.
There is a shortage of public golf courses in the surrounding area, and private club memberships are prohibitive. If you and/or Mr. Duhnym golfs, make a club membership part of the deal
And trust me, you do NOT want that job, too much work and too little recognition. Plus the opportunity for promotion past a certain level is exceedingly difficult because they’re always sending you someplace else to fix something that’s broken.
I kid you not. Since 1995, we have been in Detroit, Cincinnati, Boston and San Jose. We were in Boston the longest…2.5 years.
Also, our families love coming to visit…low cost vacations. Maybe if we make it to Paris they’ll leave us alone.
Thanks for the input. ToddlerNym is only two, so we’re not too worried about living there in the short term. I’m sure they have wonderful schools in the Big Apple, but it wouldn’t be a factor in our decision.
Sue, I’ll admit that I’m completely biased (a) because I’ve lived here for most of my adult life, and (b) because I’d really like to meet you and this seems a particularly expedient way of doing so.
Manny, bless him, has covered most of the bases. A little personal history may prepare you for living here…
I came here for law school in 1991, after a year of teaching English in Japan, four years of college in Minnesota, and a childhood spent moving between Seattle and the DC area. So I had a pretty good idea of my likes and dislikes, and knew that I preferred urban to rural, and rural to suburban. When NYU accepted me I took 'em up on it, figuring that I’d have my three years in New York, and then move to a more civilized place like Seattle or Minneapolis.
My first two-three months I fell in love with NY, the pace, everything. And, as Manny said, NYC wasn’t nearly as nice a place to live then, although it was much cheaper.
Then winter hit, and law school, and the money I’d stashed from teaching started to run out, and well…New York sucked. Being poor here can be pretty unpleasant, at least until you learn the ropes (then it can actually be pretty pleasant, considering the discounts and freebies and such that one can find). I counted the days 'til I could leave. I spent my second-summer working for a large firm in Minneapolis, assuming that I’d return there. And then…
I couldn’t. I couldn’t leave New York. How would I walk anywhere? Where would I get bagels? How do people meet each other if they’re in their cars all damn day? Have I really slept with all the available men in Minneapolis (I was afraid that in three months I had, and I’ll never know for sure…)? Is there really enough art to keep me happy? Will I never see Vermeer again? Do I want to relegate myself to reading the Star-Tribune, for crying out loud? Everyone here seems so overwhelmed by my personality… I mean, how many recessive genes can a whole population have? Why aren’t there any wash-and-fold services?
So I’ve stayed here in New York, and I rarely leave. There’s just not that much reason to, since I really can get almost everything right here. I love travelling and experiencing different places - don’t get me wrong, I’m not that much of a sterotype - but I don’t plan to move for a very long time if I can possibly avoid it. It’s just too much me here.
Pretty much completely, I’d say, although since you have children there may be a bit more of a need. Provided Mr. Sue’s employer will fund your living in a convenient neighborhood, your feet, the subway, and the occasional cab or bus will provide you with everything you need. Cars are really only useful if you leave NYC on a regular basis - such as for reverse commuting, or for a summer/winter home.
No no no! Really. We have fairly strong personalities, but that’s strong in all directions - we’ll help you out if you ask, and trip over each other to do so.
One of the reasons black is so popular is that it doesn’t show dirt, and that’s a major consideration in a city where so much of life happens on foot - either walking or standing. One puddle is all it takes to ruin light-colored trousers. That said, NYC is hardly monochrome, nor do you have to wear black to be cool
The only places that keep people out for alleged “dorkiness” aren’t worth trying to get into, IMHO. 99% of the city really doesn’t care what you look like, as long as you pay your bill and don’t cause problems.
Well, this is a toughy. RE prices have not come down very much - they’re not skyrocketing anymore, but holding pretty steady. The ludicrous areas in my opinion are Soho, which is now overrun with crowds on weekends (every chic store in the world now has an outpost there), and Tribeca, which is trying to be Soho, costs a fortune, and lacks a lot of basic infrastructure (e.g. supermarkets in walking distance). I’m also not a big fan of the Upper East Side, which I find boring beyond belief. The other problem with all of the East Side of Manhattan is that there’s only one subway line, the Lexington, which gets horrifically crowded. They’ve been waiting for a Second Avenue line for 70 years, so don’t hold your breath.
No. It does happen, and it did happen to me one time six years ago, but street crime is WAY down. The key is to stay with crowds, and that’s not really a problem most of the time. (And my mugging really wasn’t that bad - it was on the subway, on a Saturday afternoon in a nearly-empty car (KEY POINT: nearly empty). The guy said he had a gun. I forked over my wallet, with all $14 of cash, and he jumped off at the next stop. Scarey, but no real harm done.)
It’s a mix. Some markets are terribly overpriced, but with a little digging you can find some bargains. If you end up keeping your car, one of the great places is the Fairway store up at 125th street in Harlem - cheaper than most suburbans stores, and very fresh. If you don’t have a car, you may find that shopping in New York is more like shopping in Europe - you won’t get it all done in one place. One store has nice meat, the corner Korean has great produce, etc. When you arrive, ask around, people will be glad to tell you what’s good.
What, you planning go into the construction industry? Garbage hauling? If not, then no, dear, we call it tipping, and it’s just for personal services - and New Yorkers do depend on those a lot more than other people. In addition to waitresses, cab drivers and shoeshine men, you’ll also be tipping (or christmas-giving) to your building’s staff - the super, the doorman (if there is one), the maintenance folks who do jobs in your unit, etc. You’ll tip for deliveries, and New Yorkers tend to have a lot delivered - groceries, drug store runs, dry cleaning, laundry, etc.
Um, AFAIK the answer is generally that you don’t, but I don’t haul around babies regularly. Theoretically, I’m sure you’re supposed to be able to, but the reality is that it’s such a time-consuming hassle you won’t ever bother. (If you block traffic while putting the damn thing in the cab, you’ll have no end of trouble.) Part of living in New York is risk taking, and frankly, part of having children in New York is letting them take risks. They’re not Faberge eggs, and a couple of uncar-seated cab rides every once in a while won’t kill 'em. (Besides, traffic moves so slowly much of the time that the real risk is pretty low. The cost is also pretty high - most people I know don’t take cabs very often anyway because it’s an expensive habit.)
Yes. You must get a thick skin here, and you must be willing to take risks. That means you survive.
Hope this helps! I really do look forward to meeting you WHEN you come!
Heh. Like I said, everything of any import eventually comes to New York.
Anyway, Sue, to answer your questions:
Well, expensive and only sometimes necessary is the answer here. Insurance is expensive, and you either pay ~$350/month for a garage or play the “alternate side of the street parking” game. Ike may be able to tell you how it works, but basically it means dedicating your life to making sure your car is in the right place each morning. Most Manhattanites who have a car own a beater or semi-beater – the car will get dinged. We park by sense of touch.
Yes, and within 6 months, you will be one, too. Actually, no. What we are is in a hurry. That sometimes makes us seem curt, but in fact we’re all pretty nice people. You will find that the pace of your life picks up and your expectations of other people’s pace will follow. That’s why out-of-towners think such bad things about us. We can’t understand why they’re telling us to have a nice day when our day would actually get much nicer if they’d give us our damn change and let us get on our way.
That said, some of the nouveau riche are assholes, but candidly they’re mostly moving back in with their parents now that their options are expiring worthless. And most of the investment bankers are assholes, but it’s easy to avoid them. And some of the lawyers are assholes, but we have no monopoly on that.
Gray is the new black. It is permitted. Colors are permitted if you are very old, like Mrs. Astor.
I may not be the best source of information here. It’s my opinion that the bars that get lines tend to get the assholes. I stay away from them. Getting into a great shot-and-a-beer-and-the-game bar is no problem. New York nightlife starts late. If you are out early and plan to get back by 10:00 to put toddlernym to bed, you won’t have a problem anywhere but dinner in the theater district.
Tribeca is mostly overdone, but Chelsea hasn’t played out the string yet, east or west. The upper west side is always a good option, and on your budget you can get a really nice place on Riverside Dr., which never goes out of style and has river views and a nice park. To avoid the matrons, stay off York Ave, East End Ave and Fifth and Park north of 70th St.
And it hurts me to admit this, but if you want the whole yard/sunshine thing, there are several suburbs that have an easy commute to the city and can offer that in Weschester, New Jersey and even Long Island. There are also some nice areas in Brooklyn that have a city-block feel but neighborhood charm.
I’ve been here since ’87, and only been mugged once. It’s actually quite rare, and practically non-existent for people who stay in populated areas during normal people hours. A friend of mine recently got mugged, but that was at 1:30 AM on Tenth Avenue and 18th St. Crap, I’d mug people at 1:30 on Tenth! What was she thinking?
Not really, since NY is the major ship-through point on the East coast. Milk, I’m told, is expensive because of some dumb state law, but pretty much everything else is normal priced. You will be astounded at the variety and good prices of fresh foods. Many New Yorkers do not buy fresh food at the grocery store – we have butchers fishmongers and farmer’s markets convenient.
But you will eat out a lot. We all do. That can get expensive if you do it by delivery or go to too many expensive places, but there are thousands of great, inexpensive restaurants in town. Try zagats.com for a sample. In two years, you need never go to the same place twice if you don’t want to.
Yes. Not for everyday stuff, but the list of people with their hands out at the holidays is enormous. Budget ~$750 - $1250 for Christmas bonuses – your building staff, the mail guy, your dry cleaner, your dog walker, etc.
Similarly, there are lots of people who get tipped. Hotel doormen, for instance.
Bribes also help you get to the front of lists. Apartment managers, ticket agents, folks like that make a pretty good living in the city.
But you don’t have to bribe cops or the fire department to get them to come, or anything like that. You used to have to bribe elevator inspectors, but now they’re all in jail. Oh, speaking of which, do not get a place with a working fireplace. There are only about 4 qualified chimney sweeps in the city. They all live like kings.
Haven’t the faintest, but I know that taxis are required to accommodate them. Most folks have those “convertible” strollers, where the carseat is built in and just pops out so the seatbelt can hold it in the taxi. They look like baby SUVs.
Yes, but only if you limit yourself to “King of the Hill”. “Top of the Heap” is a title reserved for our Sanitation Commissioner.
