NYC Dopers: What about Manhattan justifies the rent?

In My Humble Opinion
1

This is a question asked from ignorance rather than as a matter of judgment. I’ve always heard horror stories of the rent and congestion and crime in Manhattan (everybody I’ve ever known who has lived there paid $1000 or more for an apartment that would have gone for $250 in the cities I’ve lived in; the apartment I pay $500 for I’m told would go for almost ten times that in terms of size) and the salaries in Manhattan, while higher, are not enough to offset the cost of living difference.
Is it the energy of the place that is worth the money and aggravation, or is it niche jobs that simply aren’t available anywhere else, or not wanting to commute from Jersey or wherever, or what? (Again- this is asked out of ignorance, not out of judgment.)

Also, a GQ: how long does it take to get from Brooklyn or Queens to downtown Manhattan by subway and other mass transit?

2

It’s hard to describe what makes New York City so wonderful; it’s just the greatest city on Earth. Whether you’re a business-person, a performing artist, a sculptor, painter, writer, etc… there’s always something for you to do, and there’s always potential to make it big here. Not to mention it’s just a beautiful city… You could be in Times Square at midnight and swear it’s the middle of the day. Beautiful skyline, as well.

But if you’re asking why one would want to live actually in Manhattan when there are several boroughs to choose from, I’d have to say it’s mostly a status symbol thing. I mean, sure, there’s the energy and “coolness” factor, and that elusive 212 area code had people fighting in the streets when they changed some to 646, but unless you have money to spare, you can enjoy NYC just as much even if you live in an outer borough, including Northern New Jersey.

As for your GQ, Brooklyn is at the lower part of Manhattan, so a subway ride is pretty quick, as long as you’re not too far into Brooklyn (Brooklyn is actually huge; just as large as any major city in any other state). Queens is on the northern part of Manhattan, so going downtown would take longer, and again considering that Queens is pretty big too. All in all it would take about 15-75 minutes from Brooklyn, depending on your starting point, and about 30-90 minutes from Queens.

3

Let’s see, I lived in Manhattan during school, which doesn’t really count because I lived in the the dorms, and then after college, for about 7 years.

Now, I live in Brooklyn, we’ve been here for about 5 years.

You mentioned crime, which I think is a almost a non-issue these days. I don’t know where you’re hearing that from, I think it’s more of a TV thing. Most parts of Manhattan are very safe places to live.

The congestion … well yes, it’s crowded. I’m not sure if that’s a negative, though. Traffic is congested, but many (if not most) people who live in Manhattan don’t have cars, so the subway serves just fine. In terms of people crowds, I would say most New Yorkers like crowds, even when we complain about them. Yes, of course you don’t want a crowd when you personally need to go shopping at Century 21. I find it somewhat unsettling when I visit other US cities and there aren’t crowds. Where are all the people?

Cost. Well, this is a biggie. Keep in mind that most salaries are inflated a bit as well. Speaking only of my own personal job, I know that I make more in this position in Manhattan than I would in a similar job at just about any other school in the country. When I lived in Manhattan, I walked to work, saving the cost of either a car or public transportation. Here in Brooklyn, where I pay less in rent than I would for an apartment of similar size in Manhattan, paying for transportation is another added cost.

So why did I move to Brooklyn, and what are the pros and cons?

The main reason for the move was to get more space for the amount of rent we pay. I had been in my apartment in Manhattan for a while, and it was rent stabilized so my own rent stayed about the same, but we got a lot more space in Brooklyn. Now that I think about it, that was the only reason for the move. I am the kind of person who has a lot of stuff, and the extra space was needed for that, plus we now have enough space to have a pet.

I work in Greenwich Village, which is toward the downtown part of Manhattan, it takes me 1/2 hour, door to door, to take the subway into work. I also live fairly close to Manhattan, there are parts of Deepest Brooklyn that would make the commute by subway over an hour.

Things I miss: the 24 hourness of Manhattan. Yes, we have a 24 hour deli here in my Brooklyn neighborhood, but it’s only the one. In my old Manhattan neighborhood, there were countless delis, restaurants, and even bars open 24 hours. Here in Fort Greene, if we have to work late, we’ve missed the window of opportunity to order a pizza. In Manhattan, we could get food delivered at any time.

So you might be asking, but who wants or needs to have a cheeseburger deluxe delivered at 2 AM? Well, you never know. I think part of what New Yorkers like about being New Yorkers is that you could get a cheeseburger delivered to you at any time, even if you don’t avail yourself of this very often. It’s part of the New York mindset.

Right now there’s a lot of buzz about our Brooklyn neighborhood becoming more commercialized, with a lot of large chain stores moving in. But there is still nothing close to the variety of stores and other kinds of businesses in Manhattan.

This one is always hard to explain – keep in mind that living in Manhattan, I didn’t have a car. If I wanted to go to the gym after work, I could carry my gym stuff with me to work, in addition to my briefcase or laptop or whatever else I was lugging around. Or, I could run home during lunch or after work and get my gym bag. Out here in Brookyn, I absolutely need to have every single thing I need for the entire day with me when I leave the house in the morning, and I’m carrying it myself, not in the trunk of my car. So there is something very convenient about having a base of operations right in the city.

4

Sampiro, ever heard the phrase “what the market will bear” in discussing the supply/demand price system?

Well, you are looking at an example thereof. The day nobody is willing to pay $2,000 a month for a broom closet with a toilet, is the day the broom closet with a toilet gets its rent lowered to $1,800.

5

For some I guess it’s the city lifestyle, and others it is the desire for a short commute. But these are just side issues, the major issue is supply and demand, people compete for resources (housing) that is limited and the price does (and should) rise.

6

Are you just asking specifically about manhattan or any high rent area? Boston and Tokyo are more expensive than manhattan. I know on roommates.com you can get a place in Boston starting at about $250. its probably in the ghetto with 5 roommates though.

You also have to factor in the fact that many people in Manhattan do not have cars. Considering that many of them are professionals who would buy expensive autos they can be saving $500 a month by not owning a car. But I have no idea how much subway and taxi rides cost in Manhattan and that would probably cut into the savings deeply.

7

I lived in or around Manhattan for 25 years, before moving back to Cleveland to help take care of my parents. Things that I miss:

The city is 24/7. There is always something happening, and just going for a walk can be an adventure. Walking to work, and do my shopping on the way home (there were 5 supermarkets withing 2 blocks of my apartment). Not having to get in a car and drive just to get someplace. Walking to Carnegie Hall and Lincoln Center. Walking to world-class museums, or taking a subway to Yankee Stadium or the zoo or the botanical garden. OMG, all the skyscrapers. From my last apartment, I had a really gorgeous view of the World Trade Center (I loved it, but not as much as I should have). Deli food; it’s just not the same anywhere else. Shopping, shopping, shopping. The Statue of Liberty. Buying art supplies at Pear Paint on Canal Street. Now I have to buy from them on-line, and hate it. Every conceivable kind of restaurant, no matter where you are. The Circle Line boats. Rockefeller Center and the store windows at Christmas time. The crazy people talking to - and answering - themselves. The bookstores. Trying to fit as many plants as possible, into not enough windows. Walking home from work in the middle of the night, and never once getting mugged. The New York City Gay Men’s Chorus. Central Park. Borrowing someone’s car and driving to Montauk, at the tip of Long Island, visiting the Hamptons along the way. Times Square at New Year’s Eve: everyone should experience that insanity once (and only once). Taxis. Hot pretzels and chestnuts. Walking across the Brooklyn Bridge. Seeing the World Trade Center from the top of the Empire State Building, then seeing the Empire State Building from the top of the World Trade Center. The Village. Riverside Drive. Broadway shows - there was always something wonderful playing. Local politics (remember Bela Abzug?). The tram to Roosevelt Island. The Staten Island Ferry. The Chrysler Building. Bloomingdale’s. The windows at Barney’s. Fifth Avenue. Washington Square when it’s snowing. “Nobody Beats the Wiz!” WQXR Radio. The main Library, especially the lions. The Plaza. All the young, talented kids from all over the world, coming to New York to make a name for themselves - and some of them actually succeeding.

And the things I **don’t **miss? Well, yes there are a few things, but right now they seem so irrelevent.

8

Out of interest (and as a semi-related hijack) how much would that Park Avenue apartment that Charlotte owns in Sex and the City cost to rent/own? You can get an idea of the look here but it’s also quite big as well. I know I’m going to cringe at the price, but I’m just curious.

9

Man, I would love the 24 hour aspect. Truly. But I don’t think i could handle the crowds.

As far as traffic congestion, I still hear that LA is much worse. We have some the most congested freeways in the world here.

10

I’m looking at the Real Estate listings in the Sunday Times Magazine, and we’ve got a three-bedroom condo in the East 70s for $3.2 million, a three-bedroom in the East 60s for $1.25 million, a three-bedroom on Central Park West (too boho for Charlotte!) for $4.2 million . . . and remember, this doesn’t include the thousands/month maintenance fees.

11

For that matter, I’ve wondered how much Will’s apartment on WILL & GRACE with it’s garden (or solarium or whatever it is) and ultra mod (though small) kitchen would rent for, or what Archie Bunker’s home in Queens (for which he was offered $35,000 on the series by a blockbuster- it was much more than the house was worth) would be worth today.

12

I lived for three years in Brooklyn. I worked in lower Manhattan (1/2 hour commute) for a while, and then in midtown (1 hour commute). I never wanted to live in Manhattan, but it would have been easier on my social life.

About 95% of my friends worked in Manhattan. However, they lived in all parts of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, and nearby New Jersey. Since everyone pretty much worked in Manhattan, all after-work socializing (and there was a lot) took place there, and then we’d disperse to our various outer boroughs and whatnot. I could never pop home to change before dinner. Rarely would folks go out for a drink in Brooklyn.

Also, there’s a sense among Manhattanites that Brooklyn, etc. is about a billion miles away. People are reluctant to go there. This despite the fact that it takes equally as long to get from Lower Manhattan to Upper Manhattan as it does to get to parts of Brooklyn.

13

[sub]Shhhhhhhhhhh.

Let’s keep it that way, shall we?[/sub]

14

No, Boston is nowhere near as expensive as Manhattan unless you live on Newbury street or something. Also, nobody lives IN Boston really. They live in Alston\Brighton or Brookline or Cambridge or suburbs like that. In Manhattan you can’t find anything for less than $1200 a month.

Why live in Manhattan? The lifestyle. I could walk out of my old East Village appartment and go to a hundred different restaurants, bars or other spots all within a ten minute walk. People think of New York as big and impersonal but I like the fact that I would bump into people I know while casually walking around. In fact, I found Manhattan much less isolating then when I lived in the suburbs of Boston and needed a car to get everywhere.

It’s great if you are single because there are so many other available single people and so much to do. And of course you have all the parks and museums and such.

Everything not on Manhattan is considered “Bridge and Tunnel” (as in you had to take either one of the bridges or tunnels to get there). I now live in Hoboken, NJ (about a 10 minute ride across the Hudson on a special “PATH” subway that goes to Manhattan) with my GF. I consider it “slumming”, however, since I lived in Manhattan for three years first and hate Hoboken.

Why is it so expensive? Well, there is the high demand to live there. Also, there are so many high paying jobs that can support those rent prices. $75000 anywhere in the country will get you a decent car and a house. It’s the bare minimum in Manhattan unless you want to live frat house style.

15

I’ve never been there but I think I’d really like it.

It does seem, though, that the rents go down exponentially as you move off the island. My stepdaughter and her boyfriend found one level of a brownstone in Brooklyn for $1600/month, and it might as well be in Manhattan, just a few blocks from the water and across the street from a subway station.

Some of you might remember a thread I posted about a couple of scares she went through–it looked like she was going to be laid off from her job before even starting, and then her original sublessor had backed out of that deal at the last minute, but now everything has worked out better than fine.

16

I agree with the principle of this. My neibhborhood is no Manhattan, but it is a walkable urban setting, with scores of places I can walk to. Sadly, we have no pubs, due to an antiquated law prohibiting taverns near Veterans Administration facilities, but we have lots of everything else. At least the restaurants can serve alcohol.

When I see old, very small houses or apartment buildings being replaced by bigger complexes, part of me is actually glad, because it means more density, and probably the neighborhood will have more to offer by way of diversion.

17

I love Hoboken–wish I could afford the rents there! I live in one of the North Jersey towns from which I take a train to Hoboken, then the PATH to NYC. Or just take a bus.

Funny thing is, I can see the Empire State Building from my living room, and I have a shorter commute than most of my Brooklyn friends and even some of my Manhattan friends (who have to switch subways twice to get to work). And I pay about 1/4 the rent, for a large 1-bedroom . . .

Main problem with NJ is you can’t walk home after a power blackout or terrorist attack.

18

There are no apartments* in Boston or anywhere within probably 40 miles that cost only $250 per month. Whatever you saw must have been ads for rooms in apartments with roommates. Several roommates. Studios in Boston and the surrounding area run about $900+; one-BRs are about $1100+ - the sky’s the limit.

I’d have to disagree with that. Many people live right in Boston - Back Bay, Beacon Hill, The Fenway, Leather District, South End - those are all residential areas and they are jammed to capacity with people living there.

*Obviously there could be “some” apartments somewhere in or near Boston that someone is only charging $250 per month for. That landlord would either be insane or insanely stupid, since apartments have not rented for $250 in Boston in at least 20 years. He would be vastly undercharging on market.

19

msmith, I meant I do agree with the part about Boston not being as expensive as Manhattan. What I don’t agree with is your statement that nobody lives in Boston.

Manhattan is WAY more expensive than Boston. Definitely.

20

I think it’s all the protective spells quelling the spirits of the dead Manhattoes that make it so expensive!!