The fence along the property line has been rotting away for years. It was rotten when I bought this place. The wind is up, and it blew the fence down.
I suppose I should replace it before the obsessive neighbour decides to visit/move up. The existing fence, such as it is/was, was made of 4x4 non-pressure treated posts put directly into the ground. Two-by-fours were nailed across the top, and screwed to the lower parts of the posts (45º angle) at the bottom. One-inch by five-inch slats were placed vertically, being nailed to the horizontal 2x4s.
I would rather have something more attractive, like a rock fence, but I can’t afford it. I will consider my repairs ‘temporary’. So here’s what I thought: Get some 4-foot pressure-treated 4x4s. Dig post holes one foot deep. (That will make the fence three feet high, which is taller than now.) Put the posts into the holes and pour in some dry cement. Add water to the cement. (I’m guessing they make a cement especially for this, as I’ve seen it done on TV.) Install the 2x4s and the slats. Probably won’t paint it because I don’t care. If Ms. Psycho wants a better fence, she can have it built.
I’ve never built a fence. Do you think my plan will work?
I recently redid a fence. But I live in the Deep South. The land of mud, clay, silt, and sand.
IMO if you really want to do a fence right, the first thing you need to do is put those posts DEEP. I bought 10 footers rather and 8 footers. I am not sure of how it goes engineering wise but I do know that 4 foot deep in the ground is a shit load more stable than 2.
PS You have my sympathies because this stuff sucks…
If this were a permanent solution, I’d ‘do it right’. I haven’t dug down, but considering the way the rest of this place was put together, I’m betting the existing posts only go down a foot. I mean, whoever put the fence up 25 years (?) ago didn’t even use pressure-treated wood. I just need something cheap that will stand for a few years until I can do something else.
How long of a span are you fixing? 1 ft seems shallow but for only a 3ft high fence it’s probably fine as a stop gap. You’ll be no stronger than before. The pressure treated won’t really make a difference over the short time frame I would think.
Even for a temporary 3-foot tall fence you should probably go down at least 2 feet, otherwise it seems likely the fence would wobble in the wind. You could buy 10-ft posts and cut them in half.
I made my fence out of these, 8 feet wide and 6 feet high. All you have to do is attach them to posts (which would have to be deeper and taller than you have discussed). I was able to do it in 2 days (one day for the post concrete to set, one day to attach the panels).
Only 32 or 40 feet. I don’t care about the rest of it, which is mostly gone anyway. To do what I want to do will require cutting down some trees, which I don’t feel like doing anytime soon. (And Mrs. L.A. likes them.) The old fence lasted long enough, but it finally rotted.
You’ll want a level to get your posts and rails straight and true. You’ll want to measure out the distance to get your post spacing nice and even as well. Seconding the deeper holes as well. You could do without concrete if you’ve got a decent rammer and ram the dirt back into the holes properly. Which side are the slats going on? If it’s the neighbour’s he’ll get the nicer view but will he be happy with you on his side of the boundary nailing them in place? (and make sure you’re sited on the real boundary too, no you can’t just assume the old fence was in the right place either).
Personally I’d get the neighbour involved before you start anything so you don’t end up doing the work only for them to bitch and moan and insist on changes. They can share the cost too IMHO.
25 years? You got a good life out of that fence, pressure-treated or not.
Around here, probably 99.995% of all residential wood fences are built of redwood. No pressure treating needed, but plan on it needing some patching at 20-25 years, and at 25-30 years, plan on the thing just collapsing of old age. Western cedar is a little less durable, but also isn’t normally pressure treated.
Most pressure-treated lumbier is, AFAIK, pine or fir, and also good for about 20-25 years.
For 30-40 feet, you’re looking at needing 5-6 post holes, and yes, deeper is better. If you’re lucky, you can pull out the old posts and re-use their holes.
Don’t reuse the holes you need to dig out any cement and poor new cement around the new posts so that there are no gaps. When I poured post holes I used some cardboard and wrapped it around the posts to make a cylinder to pour the cement into.
If you told your neighbor it would be a plank privacy fence (“like the one 2 houses down” and point to one where the planks are all 7 feet high, all directly connect, & provide visual privacy), then don’t renege and built a plank “picket-fence” with 6 inch gaps between each plank that’s only 5 feet high.
“Why did you plant 10 tall pine shrubs there? Don’t you know that eventually they’ll ruin my fence…?” :rolleyes:
Nah, I don’t want to talk to her. She never said a thing to me for nine years (I should note that she doesn’t live here – It’s her vacation home), and then the first thing was complaining about the property line that was resolved in court more than 20 years and two or three owners ago.
Las time (second time) I talked to her it was the same thing. I told her if she wanted to put up a fence, she can put up a fence. I don’t care. I talked to her handyman several months ago, and he said she wanted to put up a fence but wanted to talk to me first. She hasn’t been up this year but once, and then only for a couple of hours. Never heard from her.
Anyway, if she doesn’t like my fence she can have one built.
IMHO, why even bother digging a hole if you are only going to go 1 foot down? I mean, just buy some of those concrete post blocks and put them directly on the ground. Yeah, they won’t look as good and will move around, but if you are only looking at them lasting a year or two, they’ll do. And, as said upthread, if this is all that you are looking for, don’t pay for pressure-treated.
If you are going to be digging holes, be smart about it. Advertise on Craigslist for a helper, pay him $12/Hr with a 3 Hr minimum, and do your homework (have the tools, materials, holes marked, know how to supervise) and have him dig the holes. Cost, $36 and you don’t have to dig any holes. If he is a good worker, tell him you are going to need him in a couple of weeks to put up the fence. Have refreshments and if you use the whole 3 hours, pay him for 4. That’s cheap compared to digging post holes. You will want to wait a few weeks to give the posts a chance to set.
My first thought is that if you only set the posts a foot deep they’re going to pop out the first time the ground freezes, but I’d be worried a good stiff wind might even knock it over. I understand you don’t want to dig 48 inches for a ‘temporary’ fence. So, with that in mind, my suggestions would be to flare out the bottom, such as in the shape of those blocks in the previous post. Set the concrete a few inches below grade*. Maybe go a little more than 12 inches (+ however far you set them below grade) if you have some energy left and finally, if it’s possible, do the fence as a picket style fence so as much wind and snow can get through as possible, that’ll minimize the pressure on the posts/footings.
*I’ve heard, in more than one place, that setting the concrete below grade, even a few inches is helpful so when the ground freezes, some of that freeze is over the concrete which makes it that much harder for it to heave since it has to push up through frozen earth.
Also, ask yourself, realistically, how long is temporary? There’s a difference between “I’ll redo it in spring” and “it needs to last at least 5 years and I’ll put up a real one when it starts deteriorating”. It could be the difference between just setting it on the ground on blocks (in one fashion or another) or using some other, albeit cheap, method that will get your more than a year out of it.
You are on an acreage? I would consider renting or borrowing a post driver and installing an agricultural fence if this is a temporary fix.
One foot post holes are going to do little to sweet fuck all, and cement will make little difference. The cement is a counter weight to keep the post plumb, not a glue that holds it in the ground. Its main advantage is it can be faster than packing the posts in with dirt/gravel. If you are using a powered post hole digger of some type going a proper 3’ isn’t going to take much more time anyway.
If you still want to do it with no post holes build your posts with out riggers. Screw a 3’ 2x4 across the base to make a tee and a couple of braces at 45’s. Somewhat less work than post holes and movable. You can stake some or all of the outriggers in with rebar.
Building fences is a lot of work, if this is truly temporary why not just install actual temporary fencing with angle iron fence posts and a roll of plastic fencing?
The simplest standard fence design is posts at 8’ centers, two 2x4 rails screwed on the face of the posts and vertical 1x6 fence boards. Using treated wood instead is going to be maybe $.50 more per foot than untreated SPF. Redwood or cedar is a LOT more and for nice fences.
I may not be getting this right. I thought you were planning to take a 4 post, dig a hole one foot into the ground, and put in the post and pour in concrete to fill. That will work fine, but it will also work fine without the concrete. Pack in a few rocks around the bottom of the post and fill it back up with dirt and pack it in. It won’t be wobbly, it won’t pop out of the ground. That is assuming your soil can be packed and isn’t the equivalent of peat moss. If you are at all worried about rigidity nail a little metal or wood cross piece to the post in line with the fence rails. The fence rails will hold the posts rigid in one direction and the cross piece adds a little more support at a right angle, although it’s probably not needed. I have installed 6 foot stockade fencing this way, my neighbors fence adjoining my property right now is a split rail using approx. 4 foot posts just sunk into the ground.
Agree with those statements also. Steel T posts are inexpensive. You can use plastic fencing or welded wire fencing and put plastic streamers through the wire fencing to if you don’t want it to be ‘see through’. And there’s no point using untreated wood for the low cost differential for PT.
I’ll third, fourth, or fifth the suggestion that you set your posts deeper. 2’ is probably the minimum I’d go- and probably not much deeper than 3’, as post-hole diggers suck royally to use. If there’s a part of the fence-building that I’d farm out to a day laborer, that would be it.
Otherwise, it depends on just how pretty you want to make the fence. If you just want to get by at minimum cost, I’d get an extra 2x4 and cut it into 4" lengths. Then nail/screw those at a consistent height to the 4x4 posts, and then use those as a place to set the 2x4 stringers and screw them down vertically into the 4" parts- it’s a lot easier than trying to screw them directly onto the posts at a 45 degree angle. Or, if you want it to look better, you can get those galvanized fittings that allow you to screw the fitting to the post, and then the stringer to the fitting.
From there, it’s just a matter of nailing your planks/pickets up to the stringers.
Yeah, the old posts aren’t set in concrete. Maybe I should forego that since the fence is not meant to last forever. I mentioned the old fence was rotten. I have several T-posts that were supporting it in some places. I wonder how hard it will be to get them out of the ground?
No worries about the ground freezing. I’m like 65 feet above sea level, less than 500 feet from the beach. We usually don’t get much snow, and temperatures usually don’t go below the mid-20s.
Why not plastic fencing? (I assume the reference was to that stuff you see around construction sites.) Because it’s ugly. The purpose is not to keep things in or out, but to maintain a boundary between us and Obsessive Lady. It’s going to be some time before I can put up the kind of fence I want, and I want something that’s not objectionable to look at. And OL would definitely howl if I did the plastic thing when she saw it.
I actually thought about doing the blocks for the lower rail, rather than doing the 45° screws. It would be much easier. The slats will be on the outside, so no one will see them. Or instead of putting the 2x4 on top, I can put both rails on the outside of the posts – which would be easier than cutting blocks or diagonal screwing.
Home Despot and Lowe’s have prefabricated cedar fence sections. I might have a look at what they have. That way I’d just have to dig the holes and drop the sections in. It would be easier than doing it myself, though more expensive. (I haven’t calculated the number of slats I need yet.) I’ve only noticed their 6-foot panels and their picket panels. I’ll have to see if they have short fence panels, as I don’t want more than three feet above ground.
I appreciate the concerns about going too shallow. The fence stood for quite a long time, so I’ll just see how deep the existing posts are.
Why replace the fence at all? You say you want a boundary between the properties but you also said she’s never there and wants to put up her own fence. So let her and skip wasting your own time and money on a half-ass project.
