Good point. Then there’s the airport gate area itself, who knows what goes on there.
In my defense, the post I responded to specifically referenced “6 hours in a plane” which is a fair estimate of the time to fly from Oregon to eastern Pennsylvania, I think. Still, good point to remember for anyone traveling by air.
Nope, not a jerk. I’d meet them outside and masked, but not inside. Double no to them visiting any elderly relatives.
My sister is going on a full year of being unable to taste or smell. It’s not something I’m going to risk, even with a very low probability.
@Blalron, how do your other relatives feel about your dangerous aunt coming? I’d think it’d be more effective to present a united front and tell her you’d prefer if she didn’t jeopardize others by traveling to see all of you, but if she insists, she should expect to be limited to outdoor gatherings only unless she’s vaccinated and has reached full immunity. If the rest of the family are not similarly inclined, at least convince them they shouldn’t expose to Gramma.
Also, you say she’s bringing her boyfriend. Is he vaccinated? Will he mask up?
What would you do if your aunt had no weird conspiracy-theory views, but did have a history of severe allergies that made vaccination inadvisable for her? If that would change nothing, you’re not being a jerk. If it does change things, you may still not be a jerk – being vocal about weird conspiracy theories is a perfectly legitimate reason to want to limit your contact with someone – but I think this is one of those situations where it helps to clarify in your own mind why you’re doing what you’re doing.
The comparison doesn’t hold up - someone who could not be vaccinated for genuine reasons could nevertheless have been extremely diligent about masking and social distancing, and have a low probability of being infected.
Most of those have been trashed due to bad behavior in the election and/or covid response. I consider those who don’t mask, social distance and now vaccinate, to be dangerous if not outright evil. That you can let people die rather than be ever so slightly inconvenienced during a global pandemic? That’s not a disagreement, that’s not a difference of opinion, it’s a matter of character. Blood or not, I’m not keeping those people in my life. Full stop.
I wouldn’t even socialize with her at all. Let her suffer the consequence of her idiocy by not seeing family.
That is not the same scenario because the mindset & behavior of a person who legitimately can’t get the vaccine because of health reasons is 180 degrees away from the selfish idiots who don’t want to wear a mask because 'Murica!. Someone that concerned about their health would likely have already been socially distancing and masking.
Cutting these morons out of your life may be the only way to get through to them, and if not, have you really lost anything when someone is that despicable? She literally doesn’t care if she kills a loved one. Why do you even want to be around such a person?
In my opinion, we are. That’s what the news on numbers is leading me to believe, anyway.
But even if the virus does stay as a significant threat, I think we’re still approaching that decision on a practical level. How many governments will be willing to institute lockdowns and major restrictions in the next two years? For how long? And how long will citizens abide by them? Granted, for the purposes of what I was referring to, it’d be a lot easier to justify barring people from Grandma five years from now in such a scenario, but I still think it’s going to be different.
YMMV. Ending hijack. (This might be an interesting thread topic on its own, though. Hmmmm.)
But I never said that the aunt with severe allergies in my hypothetical example was health-conscious at all, or that she had been particularly conscientious about distancing and masking. You and Riemann both read that into my example because of your prior moral beliefs. I didn’t put it there. And I do think it’s important that people KNOW whether they are making a moral judgment or a health decision, particularly if they’re trying to decide whether they’re being a jerk or not, which is the question the OP actually asked. (To be clear, I also think he’s totally free to judge his aunt and it doesn’t necessarily make him a jerk.)
So the purpose of your hypothetical was to compare one reality-denying moron who has refused to get vaccinated because they are a reality-denying moron, with a second reality-denying moron who is just incidentally a reality-denying moron but is not vaccinated because they have a medical condition? But somehow my “prior moral beliefs” interfered with this perfectly sensible interpretation of your hypothetical?
The nursing home where my elderly mother lives mandates a quick-test before a visitor is allowed in to see a resident.
I think it’s a great policy.
This one too. But there’s been talk of them requiring vaccination, too.
But now would they enforce it? Do you think a conspiracy theorist who is unvaccinated would be likely to have any compunction about lying?
No, the purpose of my hypothetical was to give the OP an example that might clarify for them whether they don’t want to see their aunt because they disapprove of her behavior, or because they’re seriously worried about getting Covid-19 from her; which is, IMO, useful information to have, regardless of what you decide to do with that information. (And I didn’t say that the aunt in my hypothetical situation hadn’t been masking and distancing, either. The whole point is to consider how you’d feel about the situation if the aunt’s reasons for being unvaccinated had no connection with her personal beliefs, whatever those might be.)
I don’t know if an anti-vaxxer would lie. In my experience, they always want to fight about it, so they’ll proudly announce that they’re not vaccinated, and then there can be an argument. Just like those loons who refuse to wear a mask on an airplane. They know they’re not going to be permitted to fly without one. And they know if they remove it and argue about it during the flight, they’re going to be met by law enforcement officers at the other end. But they do it anyway.
That said, in New York State, the state has this smartphone app called the “Excelsior Pass.” You download your vaccination record (and/or test results from within the last three days) from the state, who has a record, because all vaccinations, and all test results (within NYS), are reported to the State of New York.
I suppose it could be hacked, but it’s not a terrible system.
Better than the cards, which are so easy to fake they’re meaningless. I’ve seen blank forms online – you’d just have to find the right paper. And when I went for my vaccination, I could have swiped a bunch of blanks off the pharmacy counter, no problem.
Attempting to separate these two things is completely nonsensical when it his her behavior that is creating the risk.
The fully vaccinated (Moderna) wife with no risk factors of my fully vaccinated (Pfizer) co-worker was just infected by their young, infected, obviously unvaccinated children. It’s a fact that the vaccines are no panacea against the unvaccinated and the impact is potentially a lot higher than your average cold.
So, Blalron, how do your siblings feel about this? And grandma?
Have you discussed this yet? Do you think you’ll be able to come up with a unified front?
I’m with QuickSilver on this. Do you mind writing off the anti-vax relatives for the rest of your life? Then tell them to stay away. If the relationship is worth trying to save then you may have to make a tough decision. Being vaxxed yourself means that the chances of getting a dangerous level of COVID is rare (maybe even unprecedented).
One thing we need to ask ourselves is are we trying to punish the anti-vaxxers by keeping them away? It’s an understandable reaction but is it worth ruining the relationship?