We aren’t about to become related, are we? Because that’s exactly the type of people that my soon to be in-laws sound like. And the family is from down south… Alabama, I believe. Haven’t met them yet. But my wife has done her online homework.
ASIDE: Apologies to @Blalron if my sitch has derailed your OP.
These are perfectly valid things to wonder about, and shouldn’t be dismissed.
Nor, of course, should family members who behave in a dangerously irresponsible manner get a free pass because nobody wants to write off family members or anything like that. We do (and should, if you ask me) excuse a lot from people because they’re family (whatever that means to you), but there are limits.
I described the situation above with an anti-vax sibling.
That situation isn’t a hypothetical, it’s happening right now.
I’ve decided that I’ll meet with him and our other vaccinated siblings outdoors, for lunch or dinner (the weather is getting nice enough for outdoor dining now). My kids won’t be part of the meeting, sadly.
As to the anti-vaxxer visiting our father in the nursing home, I haven’t made up my mind. I’m not sure it can happen, although I’m going to have a conversation with the medical staff at the nursing home and see what they think.
There are too many high-risk people there (including, of course, our father). They’re high-risk even if they’re vaccinated, given their advanced age and catalog of co-morbidities. And it’s a safe bet that some residents may be immunocompromised or unable to receive the vaccine (I understand that delaying vaccination is recommended if a patient is undergoing some kinds of treatment for some cancers).
And that is a tough call, because my father’s life expectancy right now is, well, not long, and there’s a good chance that this visit will be the last opportunity for my brother and my father to see each other.
This isn’t some abstract, hypothetical situation for me. It’s a hard call.
And I’m absolutely concerned about family relationships and I don’t want to write off any family members, even if they believe wingnut conspiracy theories. And I haven’t, so far. We have, for years now, just agreed that certain topics are off-limits.
But for better or worse, I’m the one who has sole responsibility for our father’s care. I didn’t ask for that, but nobody else in the family stepped up, so here we are. And I obviously have responsibility for my own children. And I have some degree of responsibility not to endanger others in my father’s current living situation.
So there we are.
I’m a bit surprised that the OP’s aunt (who is so far down the rabbit hole that she believes that Covid-19 is a hoax) would want to interact with family members who’ve been vaccinated, since a current popular conspiracy belief is that the vaccinated “shed” spike proteins which are supposed to cause menstrual abnormalities and a whole host of other health problems in the unvaccinated.
The OP could warn her off on that basis, but that would foster ignorance.
Refusing indoor contact on the basis of an underlying health risk or contacts with others who are immunosuppressed or otherwise at risk might be the best way to go. No vaccine is 100% protective.*
Also, Dangerous Aunt is a mediocre band name.
*My internist’s office has carried this to an extreme by posting a notice by the sign-in desk saying the Covid vaccines do not protect against infection but may help prevent serious disease and hospitalization. This is grossly inaccurate (real-world experience confirms at least 85-95% protection against infection by mRNA vaccines). The warning is intended to get patients to continue to comply with mask and social distancing practices while visiting their doctors, but it sends a bad message.
What I find very strange given your subsequent description of your own situation is why your first comment in this thread was this, suggesting that people like the OP (and now, we learn, apparently you too) who have obvious genuine concerns about being exposed to completely unnecessary risk to their health have a political agenda.
[My bold]
I said elsewhere on the Dope:
I think the drunk driver analogy has worked well since day one.
Even if the rest of us have air bags and no end of passive safety features, and are highly trained and highly skilled drivers, the drunk still poses a non-trivial risk that – at least in theory – should be relatively easy to reduce or eliminate.
This is a horrible situation to be put in, but – as said above – only one person is really putting others in that situation. In the analogy, it’s the drunk driver’s fault, and everybody has to react to their temerity, ignorance, narcissism, or ridiculously stubborn dogma, in order to – simply – protect themselves from harm.
To the OP: Practically, if you volunteered to buy an adequate supply of N95 masks, do you think a requirement that everybody present wear one would fly ?
Doubt it. I don’t talk to my brother much, but I think I’d hear about that.
We aren’t that far south.
Because they are not having a hard time making this decision, knowing that it is unlikely to come at any cost to them. Honestly, if there was no cost at all to me, then I’d rather have not had a sore arm and felt like shit for a day or so after my vaccine.
If someone has just asked, “Can I get you to drive half an hour up here so that I can stick a needle in your arm? It might hurt a bit, and you may feel sick afterwards.” I would have said hell no.
If it meant that my parents wouldn’t attend my wedding, then I would. Protecting themselves isn’t motivation enough, protecting others around them isn’t motivation enough. Maybe some peer pressure from their family is motivation enough.
My mother was really big into the anti-drug scene in the 80’s, and a strong proponent of “tough love”. I don’t see this as being much different.
I wasn’t going to share my personal details at first. Also, I am conflicted about what I should do in my own personal situation and have been asking myself whether my very real apprehensions in attending my daughter’s wedding are coming from my own complicated and cynical place.
NO! In fact, I would have already “deep-sixed” her as anyone I wanted to even talk to, and she would have been informed of just that.
I second the “what if you provide enough masks for everyone to feel comfortable” or “would you be okay meeting outdoors” options. That’s what my family is going with. And in our case, there’s no politics, and everyone is on-board with vaccination. But my husband would really like his kids to visit us on his birthday, and he’ll be two weeks from his first moderna shot, and our son will be one week past his second moderna shot. (The rest of the relevant people will be fully vaccinated, per CDC guidelines.)
Our son is not comfortable with an unconditional “let’s get together”. But he agreed that if the weather is nice enough to have the party outdoors, he will come and not sit too close to his father.
If the weather is nice, we’ll have the birthday party. And if the weather sucks, I will suggest we get together sometime after the vaccines kick in.
But no, OP, you are not being a jerk. You are taking reasonable steps to protect yourself. And I think you can convey that nicely, and offer options that say, “I would like to see you, just not in a way that is an unacceptable (to me) risk of getting sick. And whether or not you believe in this pandemic, I do, and if you want to spend time with me, you need to accomodate my concerns.”
It’s fine, I totally welcome other people’s stories and perspectives.
My mother seems to be onboard with making all activities with aunt be outdoors. I’ll leave it to my mother to attempt to talk sense into her sister. By nature I’m not a very confrontational person, so if my aunt turns out to be especially obstinate with her beliefs, I may just end up being “too busy” to see her next month.
I’m struggling with the idea of even needing to have this conversation with a young adult who is planning an event in this reality. There are reasons behind our strained relationship related to why that conversation will be difficult (let alone necessary) that I don’t want to share at this time.
Unless wedding planning has significantly changed from my time, a guest list that you can reliably count on is a key part of the planning and cost/budget. I’d want to be damn sure I knew who was likely to attend given the circumstances.
Boy I sure hope their decision not to get vaccinated isn’t based on avoidance of relatively minor physical discomfort. Of course the alternative isn’t much better.
Thanks for the info. That’s a higher count than I knew, so ignorance fought. I’d still say the chances of dying driving to the airport are higher than dying of COVID.
Your second point is absolutely valid. If anti-vax relatives make it a point to be belligerent then it may be worth it to shut them out.
Right, which is why guests should refuse to attend if the couple has not gotten their shots. If they can be guilted into attending, then there is no cost.
Like I said, if there was no cost to me (and that includes the costs of my conscience in doing my part of promoting public health), then I’d rather have not gone out of my way to get the shot.
For some, it’s not minor physical discomfort. I believe it was @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness who shared how badly he reacts to needles and shots, and yet he did his part. I’m sure he would have rather not have been jabbed if he received no benefit. (Including the benefit of knowing you did your part to promote public health.)
Since they don’t care about doing their part of promoting public health, and they don’t consider the risk of becoming personally sick to be high enough, then some other punishment/reward framework needs to be used.
Which brings us back to the initial concern I expressed with respect to how much of this kind reward/punishment is going to go on and how much of it will lead to intra/inter-family dysfunction as a consequence of people’s differing values and priorities.
That’s really something that ultimately only you can answer.
I was slightly surprised when my parents told me that the got the vaccine. I really didn’t know which way they’d go on it; on the one hand, they were pretty deep into the right wing disinfosphere, but on the other, they are old enough to remember polio.
I was fully prepared to avoid them, for their own good, if they didn’t get the vaccine. I am exposed to the public a bit, and so am a good vector to be a spreader. Before there was a vaccine, all last year, I refused to go over there. They are old enough that COVID has a good chance of killing them, and I didn’t want to be the one responsible for that.
Eh, I’m fully vaccinated, plus I’ve had Covid. I’m not afraid of getting it, and honestly not afraid of giving either.
My elderly mother hasn’t gotten it yet, my elderly dad has. She hasn’t flat-out said she’s an anti-vaxxer but she always comes up with some weak excuse when I bring it up. I hang out with her.
My wife hasn’t gotten one yet, but that’s because she’s holding out for J&J’s, because it’s a “traditional” one and done. She also has had covid. I hang out with her too. Those are the only unvaccinated adults I know where I give a flip if you haven’t been vaccinated, but hang out with anyway. They’re grown ass adults and have made their choice though.
@Blalron Salon has a column discussing the pandemic and this week it kind of touches on your issue.
Well aren’t you special. Fuck everybody else I guess.