How to get to Heaven according to the Bible: By faith alone?

Foremost, let me say that I do not believe ANYONE knows if they are going to Heaven. It is GOD who decides, so no matter how much scripture you quote, you can’t say if a person is going to Heaven or hell. Scriptures were made to guide us in our own judgements, not in the judgement of others.

So what constitutes following God? Here is what I believe:

It is impossible for everyone to “follow God” because there are people out there in this world that haven’t even heard or had a chance to know about God. To follow Him is to try and be like Him, which means being perfect. This is impossible for human nature to achieve until our bodies are “renewed” during God’s Second Coming. Until then we can only attempt and struggle to truly become as righteous as Jesus was. It is up to you to decide what will provide the most sincere relationship between you and God (or whatever you define this “god” to be) whether you’re a Jew, Christian, Hindu or so on. (Concerning the atheist, I’ll explain my opinion on that in a later response.) This is a decision that must come from the heart. But honestly, like any decision from the heart, there should be a brain guiding it as well, and that’s why we often look for evidence to “back our faith”.

“But don’t think that God is blaming us. That is why He’s giving us a chance for salvation. Instead of thinking that the Bible says you’re “unworthy” of salvation, think of it in the sense that you didn’t earn the right to salvation just by being alive.”

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Why not?
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I’m sure you understand what I meant overall. I don’t want to argue this point further because it is what it is. I don’t want to force any opinions on you, but how spoiled as humans are we if we think that being born earned us anything? At most, it earned us a right to a chance at life (yes I know the chances aren’t fair either). As a principle though, nothing should be taken for granted.

“In fact, it was Jesus Christ who earned that by dying on the cross.”

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I’m not the one to ask that question. I will say however that God could have eliminated sin and suffering altogether so that it never existed. Instead, he gave us free will to do what we want to do. Why? Because it seems some of us would rather choose to live a life that excludes Him. And now is when I direct you to your own quote.

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and…

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Although I doubt salvation will lead us to “an eternity of worship” which does seem more like torture as you portray it, I think the above helps prove my point that people want the option to choose… and that’s exactly what God gave them.

As for the evidence of God that you’re asking me about, I’m not referring to anything in specific. It’s everything and anything that leads you closer to Him during your lifetime.

There is no substantive difference between saying people are “unworthy” of salvation and saying they “haven’t earned” it.

Why does salvation have to be “earned?” I can understand why it would be lost maybe, but doesn’t it make more sense to assume that people are all born sinless and worthy?

Why does God care if we believe in him as long as we are good. Is flattering his ego more important than being a good person?

Out of the thousands of different religions and gods, how are we supposed to know which one is the real one?

Since there is not the slightest evidence for any of them why would it be a sin to reject them all and hold out for proof?

Why is it impossible for humans to be perfect? I thought we had free will? Don’t we have the ability to always choose good?

Dear Diogenes

I was accused of being a cynic by an English teacher in highschool 30+ years ago.

I got the BIBLE CODE program and played with it myself. Have you tried it?

Dal Timgar

The Bible Code debunked

Basically, any text which is transliterated into Hebrew letters will yield the same results.

I waded through all three pages of this bizarre thread, and was touched by some compassionate and intelligent posts, notably by Siege and tom~. I wonder if after her amusing Parable of Cake, it would be out of line to tell Beryl Mooncalf “When come back, do Pie!” :wink:

In all fairness to the position of folks like Svt4Him and the OP, the idea is that God is being fair in expecting only one thing of us to justify ourselves before Him: absolute perfection. But, recognizing that absolute perfection is nigh onto impossible for humans, He mercifully accepts Jesus’s absolute perfection, freely offered, as a substitute for our own tainted efforts.

But in sum I think that what iampunha has to say in the above quote summarizes very well what I’ve found to be the case. :frowning:

Actually, Polycarp, I think we all understand Svt4Him’s position, and I think we’ve all heard it several times before.

Maybe you should explain our position to Svt4Him?

Acts 16:30-31:
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, [Paul and Silas] what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
FAITH alone is enough! “There are none without sin, no, not one.”

So I should cherry-pick the verses that tell me “FAITH alone is enough” and ignore the verses that talk about works?

No, that’s not my point at all. Like Jesus said, we should do all of these things AND The Law. My point is, if you “backslide,” all the dogma of 1000 Catholic years, does not mean you are going to Hell. If you’re obeyant for 65 years, and in a Catholic example, you got to confession ALL your life, but then you choose to got to a family reunion on Sunday, and then die on Wednesday, you’re NOT going to Hell!

Jesus’ message was one of Love and forgiveness! If you truly believe then you will be forgiven.

But if I don’t “truly believe,” no amount to agape or works will save me. That about the size of it?

Yes! Granted I don’t know what “agape” is, but the Bible says, no amount of good works alone will save you. Faith is what does it. If you believe in your heart in God, God knows this, and will save you. One on One relationship.

if6was9, what about Miriam? Did she get what she deserved?

And how do you explain my own experiences with God?

if6was9,
“agape” is a Greek word for compassionate love (as opposed to erotic love).

So do you think it’s reasonable that a person who is loving and kind but does not believe in Jesus should be tortured for ever? How do you reconcile that with a loving God?

BTW, welcome to the SDMB. Anyone with a Jimi Hendrix reference in their nick can’t be all bad. :slight_smile:

I think you’ll need to be a little more specific. Mere belief in God’s existence doesn’t cut it, right?

Howsabout if I have a personal, one-on-one relationship with God, but don’t believe he had a son?

As Ben notes, there’s a real problem with the “if you’ll only believe” school of thought – people who do put effort into belief do not feel any results from it – not the rewards promised believers (see Romans 12 for a good example). Likewise, there are people who are driven away from churches by social condemnation (examples abound in almost any religious thread; gobear and Siege have told particularly poignant stories about people they’ve known that stick in my mind), and there are people of a rational frame of mind who find it impossible to “believe seven impossible things before breakfast” even if their Carroll does have a hummable melody. Any account of how God works among humankind needs to take these people into account.

This is a lot tougher board than I’m used to! :smiley:

Ben, I explain your and mine and everyone else’s experiences with God (or is it the world, the Devil) I don’t think God (Jesus, Holy Spirit, all the same…) I don’t think God God cares much about what happens to us in this life, only how we react to all the crap that happens. Tons of bad stuff happens in a lifetime, but does it make you doubt the existence of God? THIS is the faith! BTW, I don’t know who Miriam is. The Daughter that was “offered up” by Job to appease the Soddom and Gomorreans? (sp???)

Andros, “Howsabout if I have a personal, one-on-one relationship with God, but don’t believe he had a son?” That would make you a jew, or not specifically YOU. But Jews and even Muslims believe in Jesus, but don’t accept his divinity. Other religions have the same tenets, love your enemies, do unto others, etc. Personally, I think God has many sects of followers. Of course this is the purest speculation. The important thing is back to the one-on-one thing. A verse (from Isaiah?) says (essentially) if I know the existence of God, and tell a non-believer about it, if they don’t believe, it’s their one-on-one problem. MY focus is on MY relationship.

Diogenes, “So do you think it’s reasonable that a person who is loving and kind but does not believe in Jesus should be tortured for ever? How do you reconcile that with a loving God?” I really haven’t figured out exactly HOW to reconcile that! I drop back and punt to that one-on-one thing. The rest of the verse that I (mis)quoted to Andros is, if I make an effort to tell a non-believer about God, and he then, still rejects him, then it’s not my concern. I did what I could do to help, but my main focus is the one-on-one thing. I can only directly impact MY relationship with God.

p.s. Diogenes, Jimi’s talent is PROOF of God’s existense!

if6was9, I suggest you go back and read the “Miriam” post, as well as my post about my own experiences. From your replies, it seems like you’re commenting on my experiences without knowing what they were.

Ben, you’re right. I don’t know anything about your experiences! Or the “Miriam” post. That’s kind of my point! With all defference, your personal experiences, no matter how bad, mean nothing. To ME, or to YOU! The important thing is, do you still believe? Look what Job went thru, and he didn’t fold!

The problem is that you’ve judged my personal experiences without knowing anything about them. You’re basically clapping your hands over your ears and chanting “YAH YAH YAH I CAN’T HEAR YOU! I HAVE THE TRUTH AND EVERYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY IS IRRELEVANT!!!” Nowhere did I say I left God because the going got tough. Nowhere in the post about Miriam did I claim she rejected God because of her suffering.

For the love of Pete, could you at least pretend you’re interested in a debate?