Well, to a very large extent yes, [eta:to your second question, as to your first, they should still record the interaction with their body cams, if nothing else.]with all the other passengers, and their emotions, that makes the situation more tense for all involved, can you agree with that? Do you see how having a plane full of passengers who are half for the guy for sticking it up to the corporation, and half against the guy for delaying their flight all pitching in their advice and commentary might make things escalate a bit more quickly?
Also, once they have landed and he is refusing to leave, he no longer has any realistic claim to a right to be there.
Staying in his seat makes sense when they wanted him to give up his seat for the crew. He was seated according to the rules that he followed, and expected the rest of the passengers to follow.
Once the other passengers have left, he is no longer following the same rules that are generally expected of passengers. If he then stays on the plane, at this point he is no different from someone who snuck out on the tarmac and into the plane. He is in fact trespassing, as he has no legal or reasonable right to be there. I have no problem with him being treated as a trespasser at that point, and using whatever level of force is necessary to remove him.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not opposed to using force and violence in order to enforce the safe functioning of society, but I am very opposed to resorting to it until all other reasonable options have been exhausted. In the case of plane incident, violence was resorted to while there were many other options available.
Here’s the question the OP posed: “So what are some effective non-violent, non-forceful solutions when a person unreasonably refuses to leave a location they have been instructed to leave, or refuses to clean up after their dog, or any other minor law infraction, and talking/reasoning has failed?”
My boss either just asks me to do something or tells me to do something. But how bosses and employees interact in a functional workplace isn’t relevant to techniques that should be used to deal with infractions of the law when someone “unreasonably refuses” to comply, and “talking/reasoning” has failed.
Yeah, although I wouldn’t tell someone in this situation that an officer will be waiting for him. That just moves the problem to the destination airport.
And here’s the thing: you don’t need an officer waiting to arrest him at the other airport either. That’s the fundamental thing that lets you get out of using force in many of these cases. You don’t actually need to fix it right now. You don’t even need to fix it today.
“Sir, this is your final chance to give up your seat. If you do not, you will be criminally charged and you will face civil penalties” That’s it. Then move on to someone else. Mail him a summons to appear and issue a warrant if he doesn’t.
iamthewalrus(:3= really has the right idea on this whole topic. Ultimately, compliance is achieved by the use or threat of force, the real question is when to apply that force. It could be done at this moment by calling a police officer, or it can be done 6 months from now after multiple ignored court summonses.
Czarcasm, I don’t think it’s so much about witnesses as it is about using force during an already tense situation, in a crowded airplane, against a person who is actively defiant. It’s a situation primed for active conflict and injury. Using force under those conditions should be reserved for ensuring the safety of passengers, not for commercial convenience.
Good point, and I would think that it would be best if it didn’t even come to that, but I was pointing out about the MOST draconian measures that would actually be effective.
Less draconian measures, counterintuitively to some, are actually better at achieving compliance.
But yeah, my point was simply that you can move the threat down the line, and it will still be as, if not more, effective. Most people will decide that they don’t want to deal with that issue in the future, and comply now. The few who refuse can be dealt with at a time that is less disruptive to passengers, crew and flight schedules.
Just as if you are dealing with someone pooping in your yard (and their dogs too), rather than creating a confrontation then and there, or calling the police who have better things to do, simply filming it, and threatening to release either to the authorities (as my city has pretty stiff penalties for not cleaning up after your dog) or social media, if they refuse to clean up after the dog.