Several threads I’ve read in the past few days describe a situation that I’ve witnessed many times personally. A family member or close friend - usually a young person…let’s say 18-28…is still living at home, won’t get a job, sits around playing video games/watching TV/masturbating/smoking pot/insert-your-favorite-short-term-gratifying-non-motivational-habit-here all day long. Note: I’m not saying any of these things is “bad”…some I like more than others…but engaging in any one or a group of these activities for most of the day, every day, is IMHO not a particularly satisfying existence. If you disagree with that premise, move on, we don’t think alike.
Most of us would like to help our family members or friends become motivated and have a more satisfying life. When a similar situation is brought up on the thread (or in conversation) it seems the most common responses are…“Kick them out on their butt!” “You’re enabling their behavior by providing a roof over their head!” “You’re being used!”
I’ve felt like saying the same things sometimes. However, I know that “Kicking their butt out” can lead to dangerous consequences. I was the non-motivational 20-year-old kid many years ago, and got my butt summarily kicked out. Within 30 days I was wrapped up in some stuff that was VERY illegal and I was in way over my head. I got out of town in the nick of time with the police at my heels due to some friends with inside knowledge on the police force. But it could have been very different. With me the motivation came years later when I realized that I had someone else to support.
So what is the middle ground? How do you motivate someone you love, without throwing them to the wolves?
Having been in a slightly-similar position (ie I was the apparent slacker)…the only times I can talk are when people sit down and ask me questions - ‘what do you enjoy?’, ‘what do you want to be doing?’, ‘what would you like to do in the future?’, but without any presumption or prejudice, and accepting ‘I don’t know’ as a valid answer. He really might not know. It really does sound like he doesn’t have anybody who he can talk to, who (1) he has no peer-pressure issues with, (2) has no obligations to, including financial or emotional, and (3) aren’t family, who tend to become a combination of the first two. I’m not saying you can (or even could) be a person who he can talk to. But until he is even articulating his feelings, he’s not going to know what to do with himself.
Throwing the person to the wolves (i.e. kicking them out) is definitely the worst possible option. Independence doesn’t come quickly, and someone who’s kicked out is far, far more likely to end up in a very bad situation than to immediately find a job and support themselves on their own. Or they might go live with a friend or something, and just continue being unmotivated. Tough-love solutions in general are more likely to make someone angry and resentful than motivated.
If the person hasn’t worked before, finding them a (reasonably tolerable) job might be a good way to solve the problem. Encouraging them to get one may not work, but if you can arrange some sort of ‘you can start next Monday’ situation they’re likely to accept the offer, even if it’s under some pressure. They may have some unjustified ideas about working and may not fully appreciate being able to buy things without having to ask someone. If it’s the type of person who can’t keep jobs, it might be more difficult unless you can arrange something very flexible. That’s one idea.
Education might also be a viable solution, though it’s a bit more expensive and time-consuming. If there’s something the person might enjoy learning about, you could encourage them to apply to a college even if it’s just for a few courses. Since the person is living at home there would be someone around to make sure they attend their classes and do their work, which is essential if this is going to work. Unfortunately many unmotivated people have no interests beyond pop culture that might lead to education that might lead to a job, so it might be difficult to find something.
Basically, I’d suggest doing something to encourage the unmotivated person to discover that independence and even responsibility can be better than doing nothing all the time. I don’t want to get really personal, but I’ve known people like this and – well, I don’t know what will work, but I’m waiting to see if anything will.
Re. the employment aspect - explore the possibility of him doing some voluntary work. That doesn’t mean shelf-stacking, or spoon-feeding the infirm (well, it might…). Take advantage of contacts you have, and see if anybody you or others know would be interested in having an extra pair of hands for perhaps one day a week. Hell, if he’s spending his time on computers, he’s probably more than capable of taking on computer-related tasks. It doesn’t need to be much, but it will get him more active (physically and socially) without the sense of obligation, and will also make things look better for him when he’s applying for real jobs.
Just want to make it clear that there isn’t really a specific “him” involved here. There are several people I know who are in variants of this situation.
So lets call the hypothetical person SlackerBoy (they really seem mostly to be Boys in my experience, now that I think of it…is this a gender related phenomenon?)
Good suggestions above…some I (and others involved) have tried in the past.
The problem really is…what do you do when none of this stuff works?
What happens when SlackerBoy has been given several opportunities to go to schools…then has dropped out repeatedly?
He hold onto jobs for a while, then drops them for months at a time, then finds another. The money goes to buy more video games/pot whatever. RULES are made stating that SlackerBoy will have to pay rent/do chores whatever, and he does it for a while, but then…well…slacks off.
So it is a cycle of promises to improve, failure, bailout given with more promises, and so on.
Usually, the answer then becomes, “Well, if they won’t keep a job, I guess they need to learn the consequences of not working. So you had better kick them out so they can learn this for themselves.” Once again, after years of trying the Throw-him-to-the-Wolves solution rears its ugly head.
Motivation is an inner Spark, isn’t it? How can one help them strike that flint without putting them in danger.
I know I’m asking the same question again…but I’m lost in the idea that there must be a way to help someone do what only they can do for themselves…get motivated.
The promises are only promises if they’re genuine. If he’s ‘promising’ something because he feels that’s what’ll make other people happy, that’s what he’ll do. Not that I’m saying you should let hem promise everything and deliver nothing - but don’t make him promise that he’ll change overnight, because that’s impossible.
Very very very true. But flint alone doesn’t make a fire.
(That’s enough Zen for today )
If there really are guys that you want to help, that you’d like to see do somethign other than what they’re doing, then do it! If you’re headed out for a walk in the forest, or want to see a movie, or whatever, and don’t have somebody to go with, give them a call out of the blue. The worst that could happen is that you waste a couple of hours of your life.
You pretty much describe the classic co-dependent scenario. The key characteristic is that it is a “cycle”. And it sounds to me like something different is in order to break this cycle.
I’d like to make a couple points first. I think it is important to recognize that there are really only two people who can make a change in this situation: the slacker himself or the parent-in-control (yes, there are usually two parents, but when it comes right down to it, one’s will will dominate the other with a decsion like this). That is, as much as you may try to ignite that spark, the matter is really in control of these two people. It seems clear that the slacker is not motivated to make any change (hell, smoking dope and playing video games all day long is practically heaven ;-), so that leaves it to the parent. This is an important point - the one paying the rent is the one who requires convincing. You will only be wasting time try to convince the slacker (who has not shown enough initiative to make any moves on his own).
Secondly, there are situations where, although it may not appear to be so on the surface, having the slacker around is mutually beneficial on some level. From what you describe, this does not seem to be the case. But the point I’m trying to make is that it is not always the case where the kid needs to be kicked out. What you need to consider is whether the situation is beneficial both to the kid and the environment (be it parents or siblings or what not).
Given what you describe - particular about the cycles of attempting something and then falling back to the same situation - it would seem to me that this slacker does need to be forced to accept some responsibility. Helping get a job is one thing, forcing (and this is where the parent needs to put their foot down) them to pay rent is another. Another option would be to allow them to attend school, but their rent would be free only while attending school. But most importantly, if neither of these options is acceptable, then he’s out on the street.
I have known a number of people in this situation to some degree or other. And the fundamental argument to be used on the parents is, if they were to die suddenly, wouldn’t they prefer to go knowing that their child is responsible for taking care of himself ? By allowing this slacker to continue falling back into slacker-mode, they are doing nothing more than supporting his irresponsibility. And I think parents should be concerned about their children being able to handle themselves on their own. Better to get these lessons taught while the parents are still around to help if need be, than not.
I think fewer people than you’d like to think are really self-motivating and responsible. Left to our own devices, I think the “child” in most of us will take the path of least resistance (and most fun). By the same reason parents don’t allow their kids to eat nothing but sweets, this slacker needs to be forced to take responsibility for himself.
So the mission for you, is not to try to “ignite that spark” in the slacker, but to convince his parents that they need to take steps (and stick to their conviction). They (the parents) are “enabling” this lifestyle, and they are the ones who can force the change. They have the option of continuing to hope that their child will “come around”, but this is where you present that “die tomorrow” scenario. This is probably THE “tough love” scenario - kicking the chicks our of the nest. But when they’re unwilling to take those steps on their own, there is little choice.
So what *does * happen to the slackers when the parent dies? I have an elderlyish (75) family member who is still supporting (not just living with–actively supporting) her two sons - one of whom works sporadically, the other not at all. “The boys” are 38 and 40. Where do you suppose they are going to end up when their worst nightmare actually happens?
I’m interested in what happens as well. I have a 45 year old brother still living with and being completely supported by the parents including the buying of beer, cigarettes and making of car payments. Not to mention the cooking, cleaning, etc. I’m very much afraid that I will have to move with no forwarding address so that he doesn’t move in with me when they go on to the next plane. Mom’s 75 and Dad’s 78 :rolleyes:
Motivation is a inner spark - there’s no way to give it to anyone else, the have to make it. Its a hard position to be in, to be unable to help someone you care about make the right choices in their life. Generally, about the best you can do is put yourself in a position away from ground zero when the fallout hits. Hense the idea of no longer enabling - it may not be for them to suddenly become motivated and self supporting, it just gets the enabler away from the situation.
A step by step plan needs to be draw up for getting these young people on their own over a period of time. In some cases the steps might include group counselling. (They won’t get much positive support for dependence, but can get ideas and encouragment for moving on with their lives.) Work in a lot of choices for the young adult. This works better as a team effort.
Work can always include intense homemaking and housekeeping. There should be a bank account with money earned in it – even if it is from housework. A savings account is a good habit from the start too.
Whatever the steps are, there should be lots of them and there should be firm deadlines with carved-in-stone consequences involved – even if the consequences are very minor. These deadlines and consequences must be adhered to or the longterm plan will not work.
The young adults must be able to see that “the Big Consequence” is definitely coming. Everyone should have a copy of these steps.
At the same time that all of this is going on, there must be lots of love and encouragement and conversation. Positive reenforcement is a good idea for each step accomplished too.
This does not have to be a “tossing to the wolves” scenario. Think of it more as the baby bird being nudged gently from the nest. That is one way of saying it. Another way of saying is is that Big Mama Bird says, “Fall or fly time, Kiddo” and shoves him out. Color it any way you want to. If he has the police chasing him, it is his fault, not theirs.
I would bail my kid out the first time, but not the second. If they are sick, I will take care of them. And they will always have a Grammy. Sometimes that means I have to do what I think is best for them and say no.
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