smaje1 - wherer arrrrrre yoooouuuuu?!?
We know that life can get really crazy with a baby, but please, just a line or two about how it went?
Thanks!
Except that elbows has the right idea here. I don’t see anything in her post that would make smaje a doormat.
I’ve had a lot of alcoholics and other crazies in my life, and I’m learning how to deal with them (Hooray for counseling and Al-Anon!). And if I’ve learned anything, it’s that hostility only begets hostility. Drama begets drama. In other words, how you behave toward others is how you can expect them to behave toward you. If you don’t want to be treated like garbage, then don’t treat other people like garbage, and if the OP were to treat her parents in the way you think they should, it’s going to make them feel like garbage. And that’s not a good thing.
That being said, it’s OK to disagree without being disagreeable, and it’s OK to establish and defend boundaries without being a total bitch about it, and that’s what elbows’ post was trying to show. Being nasty and defensive isn’t the way to deal with an already-difficult parental relationship.
It’s not being a doormat to not let it get to you. The opposite of being a doormat, is not letting everything slide off you, it’s flipping out into a full out rage every time. What we are trying to teach smaje to do, what some of us have learned to do (to varying extents), is not to care anymore about what Mom says.
Just…not to let it get to her. My mom criticized me all my life, and when she died, I was just getting to the point where I could respond “Sure, mom, whatever you say,” with a smile, and then not dwell on it. That was healthy for me. She can get mad. I refuse to.
No hostility, no drama, I agree. These people feed off that shit. What they can’t stand is the neutral smile saying “I’m sorry, we agreed, this behavior isn’t acceptable. I’m going to have to ask you to leave.”
Just in case the visit has yet to take place, do cook, do invite your in-laws, and tell your mother that if she does not wish to eat, she is welcome to enjoy the meal vicariously. A long time ago I was on a very restricted diet from time to time and used this line in reverse: I used to say, “Don’t worry, if I can’t eat, I’ll just enjoy the meal vicariously.” It worked a treat.
Do come back and tell us how it went! Or at least tell us that the meeting hasn’t happened yet, or something! I’ve been thinking about you a lot, as I have a much milder version of your mother but she’s still hard to deal with sometimes.
I think your advice missed the whole point of the OP.
You say not to give Mom the opportunity to create drama right after you said to lay down the law about who is the boss in the house.( Not verbatim, of course). The OP is trying to *defuse *the situation. As **astro **pointed out, she’s setting herself up for failure right out of the gate with this issue.
The entirety of the OP is in making it a non-confrontational visit, hopefully to heal old wounds. If the daughter is insistent on making the dinner, then daughter should get that info out right now, so parents don’t get the wrong idea. The parents get great pleasure from eating out. What can it cost to accommodate something that is so firmly entrenched in their psyche?
So, the handsomeharry cure: OP, call mom well before the visit, and ask what she wants you to cook. If she says, “Let’s go out…” go out. If that galls you so much, just let them know now, and call off the visit.
I should correct what I wrote. **MsRobyn **didn’t miss the point, but the advice was tragically contradictory, IMHO.
My advice was based on years of experience in dealing with my own mother, who sounds just like the OP’s mother. It’s also not contradictory. There are ways to establish boundaries and ground rules and not allow someone else to manufacture drama. In fact, my sponsor and I were talking about this just this morning.
The first way is “flight”; that is, to remove yourself from the drama and basically leave the instigator talking to herself. Works if the shouting match has started, but it can escalate the situation.
The second way is “fight”, which is to defend boundaries and established ground rules assertively but not unpleasantly. “Mom, I appreciate the offer to go out for dinner, but I am planning to cook. Would you prefer beef, chicken, or pork?” This is usually the best way because it validates the other person’s feelings while still being assertive and guiding the instigator’s behavior. If Mom still does not want to eat the meal that the OP has cooked, then it’s Mom’s choice that Mom has to live with. Mom can eat the meal or go hungry, but again, it’s her choice.
The third way is “freeze”, which is to withdraw. Not the healthiest choice, but if the emotions really get hot, it may be necessary.
I’m curious, though. How was my advice contradictory?
I can tell you’ve never taken a young child under the age of three out to a sit down restaurant. let’s just say, that, in the very best of circumstances it is very much less than fun, and in the worst of circumstances, pointless because the toddler must be bodily removed.
Perhaps you’ve noticed – via the roughly one billion pit threads we’ve had about children being inappropriately brought to a restaurant before they are ready – that other diners don’t appreciate it either.
Shoot, got here to late to offer advice. I hope they ordered pizza and settled in for 8 hours of entertainment as only dysfunctional family can provide.
Incorrect.
Now, the whole point isn’t about having a child at a restaurant. The OP is trying to get a nonconfrontational visit with Mom. Daughter wants to cook. Mom will (probably/maybe) want to go out. OK. I don’t care which. BUT…OP needs to resolve this conflict immediately…like before the visit…OP is about A NO DRAMA VISIT. Here is a bone of contention that is ready made. MOM DOESN’T HAVE THE FAINTEST IDEA THAT SHE WILL BE WALKING INTO THIS. She probably thinks they’ll go out.
ALL I WANT DAUGHTER/OP TO DO: Get with parents about this* UP FRONT*! Let them know daughter’s plan. Settle it *before *they get together!!!
The ‘fight’ to come is giving mom an opportunity to create drama. You told daughter not to.
Recall, the whole of the OP, the WHOLE OF THE OP WAS: Non-confrontation.
There is no need to ‘stand your ground/assert rights/show who’s boss of the home/etc…’ when trying to heal a relationship. A minor hit such as going out will not undermine the woman’s ownership of her home/self-respect. There is a time and a place to get tough, and this isn’t one of them. OP is already going in with a chip on her shoulder, and I’m trying to keep her from going weapons hot in this instance.
The fourth way is “accommodation.”
At any rate, my whole point in even making any post is to make sure that the ground rules are set before the two get together, to keep the meeting ‘non-confrontational’.
Final note: Don’t know any of what Mom thinks of daughter’s cooking, but, after they go out, present Mom with some homemade stuff to take home with her.
You asked what the harm was in going out. The harm is everyone having a hellish time because its not an appropriate age for the OP’s child (who the parents are actually there to see) to go out.
Actually I agree with you. She should explain that they aren’t going out beforehand. However, having difficult family of my own, I am sympathetic to the issue of contradicting anything the difficult family member insists on, without it being drama. This is a case where it is actually not possible to accomodate the request directly because of totally external factors.
My advice is to change the balance of the interaction by blaming it all on the baby and asking for Mom’s help in solving the problem. This will make her feel important and needed which is gratifying to narcissists and really softens them up. You’d be amazed how well this works.
“Hey mom, I know how much you enjoy going out but Baby smaje is just not ready to be out in public. But I’m just not sure what we should do. Maybe you could pick up take out? What do you think?”
Sending them out for takeout is a double whammy because it also gets them out of your hair for a breather.
Update!
Update!
Update!
Aw, man! I feel like such a jerk. I totally meant to give an update. Sorry for the delay, all – especially those of you who gave me such great advice.
The visit went extremely smooth. I think everyone was on their best behavior - me, my husband, my mom.
Mom and Dad flew into town and rented a car (despite my offer to pick them up, and this ended up being a wise decision on their part). They got to our home around 1 pm. It was weird to greet them at the door. I had baby smaje in my arms, and we all hugged and said our hellos.
We spent most of the afternoon either sitting around the living room and watching the baby play, or sitting on the back porch and watching the baby play. Baby-watching is the best! I felt quite relaxed, being on my home territory, but my mom seemed very…tense, I guess. Like she was having to work REAL hard to be on her best behavior.
My in-laws joined us for dinner – they didn’t stay more than a couple of hours, and that worked VERY well. They sort of diffused any awkwardness and everyone relaxed just a little. It was amazing to see the difference between the grandmothering styles, too. My mom barely held baby smaje, but my MIL was all over her with kisses and hugs. I thought for a while that maybe my mom wasn’t cuddling baby smaje because she was worried about how I would react, but I think my mom just isn’t into baby holding.
I made a relatively healthy salad with chicken for dinner, and everyone said they enjoyed it. When I announced that I’d be making dinner, my mom suggested we go out instead, and I told her I preferred to cook at home, and she left it at that. So, yay! No argument there.
One awesome thing that happened: At one point, my mom and dad and I were sitting in the backyard with the baby (Mr. smaje was inside, taking a well-deserved break). I told my parents I wanted to get started on dinner, so I asked them to please put together a toy I had bought the baby earlier that day (this one: cheapfever.com网站关闭,域名出售). I thought that would keep them busy while I worked on dinner.
It was beautiful and amazing to hide in the kitchen and see and hear the two of them fighting like cats and dogs over how to put together this simple, cheap piece of plastic fun. I could see the whole scene out the window over the sink. My mom yelled at my dad for this and that. My dad insisted the directions were incorrect, or that certain parts were missing. The reason it was so fun to watch is because I had nothing to do with it – I wasn’t in the middle of all that yelling and tension, I just got to observe from a safe place. It made me happy, for some reason, to see them fight like that but to be safely away from them. (Baby smaje was in the kitchen with me at this point.) But they finally got the toy put together, and baby LOVED it, and they were so proud of themselves.
My parents left around 8 pm to catch an 11 pm flight – they left much earlier than needed, but I think they thought we wanted them to leave (I don’t think we were giving off that vibe at all, but what are you going to do?). I thanked them for coming, and we all hugged, and off they went. Even Mr. smaje agreed it went well.
I found out the next morning from my mom that they weren’t able to get on the 11 pm flight (remember, she’s a flight attendent and they have to fly space available), so they got a hotel room near the airport. They weren’t able to get on either of the first two flights in the morning, but finally caught the third flight out. That, also, made me strangely happy – they could have stayed a hotel near me, and we could have done breakfast or something that next morning, but no. I think my mom was so hurt that they couldn’t stay with us that she only wanted to do this day trip, and ended up having to stay the night anyway! But, whatevs.
And now we Skype maybe once a month, or every three weeks. My mom is always the one who instigates it, because I’m really fine not talking to them at all, which still bums me out. But we’re inching our way back to a relationship of sorts. It took all this drama for me to see them for who they really are, and now that I can see them for real, I simply can’t return to loving them the way I once did.
By the way, there was no alcohol served or consumed at my home, which was very nice indeed. Best way to go for future visits, I’m certain.
Thank you all again for helping a stranger through a difficult period. And sorry for the delayed update!
smaje
Thanks Smaje, it’s a great trick to look at family dynamics as an observer. It really helps a lot, I just attended a funeral that was ready to blow with the various family fights. I would normally try and make peace and end up getting hurt [I suspect you may be in this boat as well] but this time I stood back and let the chaos unravel and it was entertaining. It is hard because a lot of us like to try and stop the fighting etc but man it felt goo to ignore it.
Congrats Samje on a job well done! I am so pleased to hear it went well.
It sounds like you are on the path to a healthier relationship with them, you should be very proud. These are difficult waters to navigate, and you did it with style.
And once you’ve pulled it off once, it gets easier each time! (And thanks for the update!)