How to raise religiously skeptical, yet sensitive children

Great Debates
1

Since both of us are atheists, we are attempting to raise our children to inquire, question, and figure things out, rather than teaching them a religion. But we don’t want to simply indoctrinate them to accept the conclusions we’ve come to.* And we want to teach them not to be obnoxious about the issue.

This is proving surprisingly easy in some respects (death and Christmas were pretty painless), and yet difficult in unexpected ways. My current snarl is the Girl Scout promise: “On my honor, I will try to serve God, my country, etc.” Now thankfully GSUSA isn’t like the BSA, and they explicitly say it’s OK to substitute a word for “God” that reflects your personal beliefs.

The thing is, our daughter is 6. It’s very difficult to explain the situation to her. She is an effective atheist, but only because she hasn’t been exposed to the concept of gods in any depth. She has no context for discussing the inclusion of the word “God” in the promise. And I don’t really want to just say, “Don’t say ‘God,’ say ‘humanity’ instead, because that’s what our family believes.” Yet I’m not terribly comfortable with letting it just go either.

In preschool they said grace, and I let it ride because I figured she wouldn’t even remember it (she doesn’t), and I haven’t challenged the ceremonial deism in the Pledge, because it would blow her mind - when I casually mentioned that students don’t have to stand up for the pledge, she was *shocked *that I would suggest not following the rules!

When we talked to her a bit about the GS promise, she speculated that “God” had been a real person - Jesus’s dad. I told her some people believe he’s a magical being who watches over people and has rules for what he wants them to do and not do, but her dad and I don’t believe that. She said, “So if someone says that, we should tell them they’re wrong.” :smack: :stuck_out_tongue: We emphasized it’s better not to bring it up unless someone asks you what you think, and we should always be kind to people.

I’m thinking of picking up Deaulaire’s Greek Myths, and sharing other stories of gods. I actually wrote a completely secular take on the birth of Jesus to illustrate Christmas for her. (After she saw a lighted nativity on someone’s lawn and shouted, “Look, it’s Cinderella!”)

Any other suggestions on treading in this area? I think part of the problem is that if you’re not taught religion from childhood, it seems really weird and hard to understand that people actually believe that. Maybe it’s too early to really get into it? Clearly she hasn’t figured out tact, if nothing else!

*Though I have discovered it is hardly possible to raise your kids to “decide for themselves.” I realize we’re steering them in our direction. I just don’t want to say, “There are no gods, just accept it.”

2

I highly recommend Dale McGowan’s Raising Freethinkers and his blog, The Meming of Life. His first book, Parenting Beyond Belief, is also very good, but consists of essays and has less practical advice.

McGowan emphasizes teaching kids to think critically, but talks a lot about being religiously literate and living in a world primarily populated by theists.

3

Religion is one of those things that will be certain to offend someone, either by believing or disbelieving. I don’t think you can completely avoid insensitivity, especially if someone else wants to get huffy about it. I think your best bet is to lower the amount of insensitivity. With the GS pledge, that’s hard to do, since they’re so in-your-face about it. Tell her to substitute something she likes for that word, and explain to her that other people believe it but she doesnt have to

4

Have you talked about stuff you don’t say to people, even if it’s true, because it might hurt their feelings? Or about how different people have different opinions on a lot of things- if somebody tells you their favorite color is yellow, and yours is blue, you don’t argue with them that blue is a better color than yellow, because different people just like different things?

5

Our parents raised us as agnostic. Basically, they raised us in a way that celebrates diversity. So in a way, different religions/beliefs systems were sort of lumped together with different cultures. When things like religion came up, they would provide all the context we needed to hear and would follow up with general guidance to make up our own minds.

“What is a Spaniard? A Spaniard is a person from Spain which is in Europe. They speak Spanish, and it is a beautiful language. What’s mass? Well, there are Catholics, and they go to a church and they celebrate, and eat wafers and have to stand up and sit down a lot.”

6

This is exactly why I’m thinking about getting involved in a UU church if we ever make some people of our own. My understanding is that they have classes for kids that discuss the whats, hows, and whys of a wide variety of religions without saying one of them is more righterer than the others, or for that matter, that any of them are right at all. I haven’t checked them out in person; I’ve only done some research on the internets. But that might be something you could look into.

I’m an atheist but grew up in a very religious family, with Catholics on one side and Protestants on the other, and have learned quite a bit about a number of other religions. I’ve found my background to be extremely valuable. My husband, OTOH, comes from a long line of atheists, never had much exposure to religion, and says he’s never really missed it. He’s fine with going to occasional UU services or whatever, but I think he thinks it’s just not the big deal I do.

And I don’t think it’s a *huge *deal, either, but I do think it will come up, in exactly the ways you’ve described, and I want to do what I can to keep my kids from embarrassing themselves or offending others. On this, however, we differ:

I’m perfectly happy to say that. :smiley:

7

The problem, an unavoidable one I think, is that children aren’t given to tact. They don’t really know what’s offensive, and don’t perceive social relations very clearly. So, being sensitive about it can be an ongoing project, but at 6 I don’t think you can avoid some ruffled feathers.

Personal anecdote: I was raised very liberal Jewish, and when I was 5 I told my best (Christian) friend that there was no Santa. Giant catastrophe in their household!! (I don’t remember it at all - its only from learning of this later from my parents that I know about it) My parents wanted me to be sensitive to different religions and had sat me down with this big “this is what we believe, this is what other believe, both are ok” speech but it just went in one ear and out the other – the idea of Santa sounded stupid to me and I was no more tactful about it at 6 than any other 6 year old.

8

You are not seeing a characteristic of raising a child without religion here; you are seeing a part of human nature. Any child will think of an unfamiliar practice or belief as weird and hard to understand. In a family that has Christmas, the child will be boggled by the notion that Jewish kids don’t have Christmas. In a family that reads a lot of books, the child will be stunned to realize that not everyone has a lot of books. A kid who goes to a friend’s house for dinner and has spaghetti will find it to be weird spaghetti that just doesn’t taste right, because it doesn’t taste like the spaghetti she’s used to.

Just today, I tried to explain to my 9yo that not every child in the world gets the luxury of having only one kid to share a bedroom with. Despite years of “children around the world” books and stories of kids throughout history, she is blown away by the notion that some families are lucky to have a room to live in and some girls get…a corner. shrug Just human nature.

9

My parents are both atheists and I was raised pretty much in that spirit. However I was also taught about a lot of religions, taken to church (my home town has a rather nice one that’s eight hundred years old) various monasteries and such. I even got one of those “Children’s Bibles” when I was about six. Could be one of the first longer books I’ve read, in fact.

The end result was, if I do say so myself, okay. There was just one catch: Because I was always taught about religion in a historical context I somehow got it into my head that religion was a long-abandoned historical curiosity, much like Greek mythology. :smack:

As you imagine I was in for quite a shock.

10

I ordered Raising Freethinkers and am delving into The Meming of Life. I really like what I’ve seen so far - thanks!

Perhaps you have a point, Heart of Dorkness. Maybe I don’t need to be so ginger about it. I suppose it’s perfectly OK to say, “We believe this, but other people believe that,” rather than trying to leave it open. Today we have to work on GS homework which involves drawing pictures of “how I try to serve God.” I think I will explain that what people usually mean by that is doing good and unselfish things. I will also (per husband’s suggestion) mention to the GS leaders that we are non-believers and the kid has no religious training.

I think they will be puzzled, but hopefully it will be OK. As **dangermom **pointed out, I guess it’s hard for anyone to get outside their own experience - when we signed up for preschool at the YMCA, I asked how much religious content there was, and was assured that it was only occasional - once or twice a month. The person completely failed to mention that the teachers lead the children in prayer every single day. I think it was because saying grace was such an elementary part of life for her, it didn’t even register!

Our daughter has known there is no real Santa since she was 3 or 4, and we strongly emphasized she was not to tell other kids this. And she has been good about it, so hopefully we can instill some rote tact until she gets the idea.

11

I definitely think you should be clear about what you believe. A lot of non-religious people are very good about teaching their children what other people believe, but omit what they believe because they don’t want to force their beliefs on their kids or because they don’t want to stifle the kids’ exploration. I personally think it’s confusing for kids to not have any “value judgment” made by their parents about this issue.

Also, I would feel out the GS leader(s) before letting them know your family is non-religious. Religious people (especially where we live) sometimes take this as a cue to proselytize to your child.

Funny story (well, sort of)…my friend’s child told her second grade class (not sure why) that she didn’t believe in god. Several kids burst into tears and the class basically erupted in outrage. The kids were terrified that my friend’s kid was going to burn in hell. It’s this kind of thing that makes me happy we’re UUs and my boys attend YRE. My oldest (6) tells me that kids at school talk all the time about what church they go to, their Sunday schools, church programs, etc. I like that he has something that he can talk about, too - it guards him a bit from people deciding to take him under their wing and “show him the light.”

12

I think you might be overthinking this. I was raised by a liberal and mostly lapsed Hindu mother, a wholly lapsed Catholic father, and attended Anglican schools. My mother very occasionally dragged me to the mandir (temple), and at school I had to attend daily services.

On the other hand, my mother also took me to a Buddhist temple so I could learn about their point of view, and sent me to various other churches and temples with friends so that I would be able to experience theirs. I think I’ve visited every type of house of worship other than a synagogue (not many Jews in Britain, and I was a decided nonbeliever by the time I moved to the States).

It is my belief that any child not indoctrinated into its parents’ faith will turn out to be an agnostic or atheist 80% of the time- the other 10% are split roughly evenly between people who find religion because of a near death experience, particularly charismatic evangelist, or somesuch, and those who find religion because it is advantageous for them to do so (as a career move, to placate potential in-laws, and so on).

At any rate, how you explain religion and faith to your kids is not really going to affect whether they grow up to be free thinkers and make their own decisions. If they are raised to be skeptical yet sensitive in other areas of life, they will be in matters of belief too.

13

Whatever you do…do not ‘bash’ God/religion. This will make it forbidden fruit.

My son was raised without religion. It was a bit weird…to have a child without it because me/cousins etc were brought up very Catholic.

When he was about 15, he expressed interest in religion. When it didn’t go away I explain growing up Catholic…that was what his grandparents were etc. I volunteered to take him to mass. He toyed with it awhile, then decided it wasn’t for him. If he would have pursued it, I would have supported him.

My actions, in other words, doomed religion from getting started…plus he didn’t want to get up Sunday mornings :D.

My daughter, OTOH, is at the same age and is ANTI religion. I even had a discussion with her once that it was really OK IMO for her to date guy who believed in God. She was firm…she would NOT date a guy who believed in God.

It was a real surreal experience for me.

14

I teach UU Sunday school - and have for about four years. I’ve taught mostly third and forth grade (because I can’t handle a room of younger kids, and mine haven’t been older yet). We’ve taught:

UU values (respect for others, respect for the environment, respect for yourself, the right to a democratic process, justice, the relationship between rights and responsibilities). This is big and the primary goal of the early years.

Religious stories - Noah and the Ark, Good Samaritan, but also some Buddhist and Hindi stories.

Civil Rights - fascinating to teach 4th graders about the Birmingham Children’s March - non-violent resistance, justice, equality for all.

We recently had third and forth graders draw what “God” looks like to them - telling them if they didn’t believe in God, draw whatever spoke to them about the interconnectedness of people and the Universe.

They also get some sex ed - which I haven’t taught. They get “comparative religions” - which I also haven’t taught - but my daughter has come home with prayer beads from half a dozen traditions (she turns them into friendship bracelets and necklaces) that she made in class. As a former Catholic, it is sort of disturbing to see her dissect a rosary.

UU Religious Education programs can vary in quality - we have a large congregation so ours are pretty good and formalized. But I think its a good way to raise kids with a values foundation that includes respect for and exposure to religious ideas without indoctrination in any one religion. We do tend to indoctrinate good little Liberals the way a conservative Christian church makes good little Conservatives. i.e. Gays should be able to get married is pretty much a tenet of faith for UUs. It isn’t a place where people who think Ronald Reagan was the greatest president ever would be comfortable having their kids - at least not my congregation.

I think its a good way to raise kids to be respectful but make up their own minds. Some parents guide their kids towards skepticism, other kids are obviously growing up in Deist households, or Buddhist influenced or Christian influenced ones.

15

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
They also get some sex ed - which I haven’t taught.
[/QUOTE]

My son took the kindergarten/1st grade OWL* class last Spring. They were taught basic body parts and a very simplified version of how babies are made. They learned what to do if someone violates their privacy and did some role-playing. They learned about different kinds of families - mom & dad, single parent, two moms/dads, etc. and about adoption.
*For non-UUs, OWL stands for Our Wholes Lives and is a comprehensive sex ed program that starts with kindergartners and extends through adulthood. The adult classes deal with healthy sexuality and relationships.

16

Nitpick: Hindi is a language. Hindu is both the noun and adjectival form.

17

The fifth graders get it again (I think its fifth) in more depth - more about puberty, and some additional information on sex.

They get it again in eighth or ninth grade - and apparently at that point it can be quite frank. And - in that UU way - very non-judgmental as long as your respect yourself and your partner.

So it builds over time. And if you don’t want to talk to your own kids about anal sex, its nice to know that there is an adult who will - 'cause sex ed in the public schools isn’t likely to cover that without causing an uproar among parents.

18

Thanks, I started with Hindu and it didn’t look right.

19

Well, it’s looking more and more like I ought to find the time to attend the UU congregation. My impulse not to indoctrinate them springs from a fear of alienating them if they wind up religious. If they decide to embrace some form of belief, I want them to feel confident that we will still love and cherish them and not turn a cold shoulder. And it sounds like the UU program does a good job of teaching acceptance and respect for others, while also leaving room for “we believe this, not that” from the parents.

My daughter does have a rosary (from my grandmother who no doubt wishes to save the babies from hellfire, even if I’m a faithless lost cause), and thinks it’s a really cool, pretty necklace. She knows Papa goes to (Catholic) church on Sundays, and if she expresses interest in going, I’m fine with it - she’s much more likely to be turned off by boredom than sucked in and indoctrinated. She also just had an art class where they created Ravana figures after reading tales of Ramayana. So I guess my point is, it sounds like the UU classes will be quite comfortable for her.

Also, I’m very happy to hear of the sex ed program. It does get me riled a bit that Wake County Public Schools has an official program of teaching that sex before marriage is wrong. Grrr. It would be nice for her to get more comprehensive information, that also doesn’t teach that her parents (along with 95% of the population) have violated some moral requirement.

Oh, and BlinkingDuck, I am ex-Catholic too, and I still occasionally get cultural vertigo. I remember being so distraught over death, heaven and hell as a kid, and I was really tense about addressing the issue with my daughter. But she pretty much just accepted the idea that death is it, you just stop and have no further thoughts or feelings, and went on with her day. Evidently the idea of eternal oblivion isn’t that big a deal when you haven’t been exposed to ideas of eternal life first.

20

My wife and I are atheists and the route we’ve taken is to teach our kids about a wide range of religions, including the extinct ones. The kids’ first exposure to Greek myths was Disney’s Hercules and we’ve built on that base in a variety of ways. We tell them things like “a story can have a good message without being true”.