The OP has stated her beliefs in religion and told her children that.
Please not Unitarian Universalism! It is not a religion in a the classic definition of the word and has no definate beliefs, no truth at it’s core. It is just “Everything is good and acceptable”. Take your children to say Baptist, Catholic churches, Jewish synagouges, Islamic mosques, and Buddhist temples if you like but not a UU center.
A religion with no definite beliefs seems quite sensible. At least they admit they’re clueless.
I haven’t read all the replies, but based on your post, I think you’re working too hard at it. Just raise your daughter as you think is truthful and honest. But don’t sweat over every word in every phrase like the Girl Scout Promise. I would just tell her that it’s something people say, that “God” can mean whatever you want (or nothing), and it’s a tradition for the Girl Scouts that started a long time ago. She’s too young to care or to appreciate the sociological significance of it. She will learn about religion’s role in society and how she can deal with it over time, bit by bit.
[QUOTE=Curtis LeMay]
Please not Unitarian Universalism! It is not a religion in a the classic definition of the word and has no definate beliefs, no truth at it’s core. It is just “Everything is good and acceptable”. Take your children to say Baptist, Catholic churches, Jewish synagouges, Islamic mosques, and Buddhist temples if you like but not a UU center.
[/QUOTE]
It is true that UUism is non-creedal and non-dogmatic, but it is untrue to say that we believe “everything is good and acceptable.” Here is more information about Unitarian Universalism that you may find interesting. From the link:
Here are the official Principles of Unitarian Universalism:
* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
They are called churches, not centers. Where we worship. The OP is looking to raise sensitive children, this is not a terribly sensitive post about the religion of at least three posters in this thread.
According to the UU posts it says:
These two are my main sticking post against Unitarianism as a religion (not mentioing the various theological problems which I won’t get into). These two reject the idea that there is any absolute truth which the fundamental core of every religion, sect, and cult. It also basically implies that in a theological sense “anything goes”. I’m not being intolerant of Unitarian Universalists BTW.
Okay. I’m not really seeing what the problem is. No, there is no “absolute truth” that UUs believe in. We believe that everyone is capable of find their own path and the congregation and larger UU organization is there to support each individual in that endeavor.
Are you only arguing that UU is not a religion? Because I cannot tell you how many conversations I’ve been in with fellow UUs discussing just that. Some UUs think it is, some think it isn’t, some have had such damaging interactions with “religion” that they don’t want any of the words associated with mainstream religions to be associated with their own spiritual life. Meh. Not important to me, personally.
Yes that is the only thing I am arguing about here. Also knowing that the UU consists of separate members ie Christians, Muslims, atheists etc. there shouldn’t be anyone on the Census who identifies themselves as Unitarian Universalist they should identify themself as a Christian or a freethinker or a Buddhist or etc.
But isn’t part of respecting who I am respecting who I self identify as? I’m a UU. I’m not a Christian or a Muslim or an atheist or a Buddhist. None of those religious tags identify me as I am. Nor am I truly agnostic. Nor am I a much of a theist. And what the hell is a “freethinker?” Is that a religion? Do they worship together?
Freethinker is a non-religious person who is similar to I’d say an agnostic. Then what are your religious beliefs?
Hmmm, well I definitely don’t agree with your Census proposal. Should we also only allow people to identify themselves as Christians on the Census if they believe in most or all of the tenets of the Christian faith? Should people only be allowed to identify as a certain religion if they partake in the rites of that religion a certain number of times? If I’m Episcopalian, yet go to the Catholic church because that’s where my husband goes, should I be obligated to identify myself as an Episcopalian or a Catholic? Is there some reason that we shouldn’t just allow people to label themselves the way they’d like to be labeled?
[QUOTE=Curtis LeMay]
knowing that the UU consists of separate members ie Christians, Muslims, atheists etc.
[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t say that we consist of “separate members.” We don’t have separate services or rooms for the people who want a little more Jesus in their sermon vs. the people who want to quietly meditate. There are people in our congregation who find meaning and truth in the belief of a personal God and people who find that in Pagan ritual. There are people like me who find inspiration in humanist philosophy. We are all at the Unitarian Universalist church, though, because we share the belief that we are all individuals with our own rows to hoe, so to speak, and that there is value in the hoeing itself. I would think that if there was someone at our congregation who identified more as a Christian (or whatever) than as a UU, they’d hie themselves off to one of the Christian churches in the area.
Re: the GSA promise.
My ex and I raised our kids agnostic in the bible belt midwest. We had both a boy scout and a girl scout. We were actually leaders over the course of the years. We pretty much taught them that if they wanted to say god, it was up to them. If they preferred something else, so be it. Both chose to use the word good.
The kids were raised exposed to my mixed RC and Protestant side and their dad’s Pentecostal family with respect for both. There was no local UU congregation, but we occasionally attended one of the more liberal Christian churches in town. They were also exposed to holy books from other religions, which was the best we could do without traveling some distance in the pre-internet age.
They are grown now and both agnostic. My two grandkids were baptised and attend a Methodist church with their mom’s folks (they’re living with them right now). Their other grandparents aren’t pushy with it and the gkids know that Papaw and Mimi believe differently. Personally, I think that they’re getting a healthy exposure to both sides.
I occasionally attend a UU church now. If I were raising kids again, I would likely be more active in it. Learning about different belief systems also gives them insight and cultural reference IRL.
So “freethinkers” are a valid religion, but UUs, who get together regularly to worship, have a series of rituals they practice, and ordain ministers - are not?
We now have 1000 families in our congregation. Its a congregation. We built a new lovely sanctuary a few years ago. We have a excellent choir. We have a Sunday Service that is ritualized. We have ceremonies to claim our children, welcome our young adults as adults, marry our couples (regardless of gender) and bury our dead. We have several hundred children who take religious education classes on Sunday. We minister to the ill and the lonely. We reflect on what will make us better people.
I believe in the interconnected web in which we all exist. Universe as God, but more spiritual than the people I know who are atheists (my husband is an atheist - AND a UU). But I’m not a nature worshiper - the web has as much to do with people and events as with rocks and streams. Its actually the most predominant belief in my congregation - the “base” belief the vast majority of us recognize - and some build from. Some days I’m an emotional theist - when my sister was ill I prayed to God - the personified old guy in the big chair sitting in heaven. Some days I’m an intellectual Huxlian agnostic - “we cannot know God” - but that’s an intellectual stance, not a faith based one.
In my life I’ve known an atheist Lutheran or two. Went to a wedding of two Catholic Pagans. Know a Buddhist Episcopalian. And several of my co-workers have been Hindu Christians (its apparently quite easy to integrate Jesus into the pantheon is how its been explained to me - the home alters are interesting). Even in more common faiths, the individual beliefs of the congregation don’t always fit into the tidy boxes of Dogma. UUs just acknowledge that and tell you its ok to take your own path.
I can see how Hindu Christians might work but how do Buddhist Episcopalians and Catholic Pagans work? Also while I do not wish to drag this into a theoloigical debate using God only to pray to in times of crisis is what as one fundamentalist Christian put it “a spare tire God.”, in other words you’re using God as a tool, not serving or worshipping Him. Also if you’re faithful both your faith and intellectual stance should be the same, for all knowledge and thought should be one.
As for saying that Unitarian Universalism is not a religion I mean in a sense that as it has no religious doctrine or dogma the people who are members of it should identify themselves as the religion they actually are. For instance the Freemasons involve some religious ritual and makes it’s members swear by their God however no person call his religion “Freemasonry”.
Meaningless distinction. Your religion is not the standard by which others are judged, and your level of commitment/devotion is not the standard by which other peoples’ is judged.
ETA: This is probably not the thread you are best equipped to offer advice in. Think about it.
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.
I think complaining or even spending a lot of time on prayer in school or in oaths is counterproductive . At least when they are kids. It will call a lot of attention to them and they have not yet formulated their own beliefs. They will you know.
I was just flat out honest when raising my son. He went to catholic schools from 3th grade through college. I just will not go to church or get involved in religious activities. When he asked why, I told him. When a priest asked I told him. But I never went out of my way to preach.
I have been reading the children’s illustrated bible - OT only so far - to my daughter and, in just about every story, she asks me (paraphrasing) “huh?”
I am fairly familiar with the bible, but there is nothing like trying to answer a nine year old’s questions to really bring it into focus. I wish I had access to someone who could help me find a charitable interpretation for some of the very mean things that happen in Genesis and Exodus.
As far as tolerance for others’ beliefs, the best I have come up with is a variation of Ceremonial Deism and an analogy with other traditional practices that help give meaning to our lives, even if most people don’t believe in them literally any more.
Yep, give her a bible and challenge her to find contradictions to itself and in the actions of every famous religious person.
I will have to agree, there’s no need to worry about how that turns out – she’s six, you’re the parents, you HAVE to give her direction and structure, specially in regards to how to deal with other people socially in a respectful manner while being aware of how things really are. Yes, I know… “Don’t say ‘God,’ say ‘humanity’ instead, because that’s what our family believes” sounds too much like what a believer in a religion would say, but as a public explanation it defuses a potentially troublesome situation until such a later time as she has developed the toolset to handle the debate herself.
FWIW Unauthorized Cinnamon, it seems you’re doing a splendid job.