The solution to the ongoing struggle to not only build a wall along our Southern border, but to also get Mexico to pay for it seems to be very elusive… but a possible solution has come to me, and it seems elegant in that it will also help to address the problem of illegal immigration.
Quite simply, as illegal immigrants are taken into custody - rather than just returning them across the border, why don’t we put them to work… on building the wall! In a sense, we’d be getting Mexicans to ‘pay’ for the wall through their labor.
In this way, by utilizing their service, they pay back the United States as atonement for violating immigration laws. They could even be granted US citizenship upon completion of the wall. This uses both the ‘stick’ of punishing the lawless action and the ‘carrot’ of rewarding them with legal citizenship by working in an honest way to build this project.
No. Good grief, this would be tantamount to enslaving them. And under some pretty harsh conditions. If you’ve never been to the area then I urge you to actually go there, physically, and just walk around for a few hours before making up solutions like this. :eek:
The obvious solution, to me, is not to build such a wall in the first place. If we REALLY need physical barriers then simply extend some of the existing fencings. Really, though, the solution to this is political, as usual. We need to fix our immigration policies and enforcement of existing laws, and the root issue is that many US companies need cheap labor. It’s rather like the drug issue…the root issue is the customers, in the end, not the drug dealers.
Are inmates slaves? When a criminal is put to work is it slave labor. Again, this seems exceedingly generous in that the criminal is permitted to pay back the United States for the crime through work on this project. What is exceedingly kind is the eventual reward of earning full citizenship upon completion of the task.
I think you’ll find that many, if not most, immigrants who enter our country illegally want to be legalized and wand citizenship. This offers them that in exchange for providing a service to the nation.
Let us take away the criminalization of people who want to be citizens and give them the opportunity to serve. Like the Peace Corps or military… it is service to the country.
It just seems to me that if immigration laws are broken, it doesn’t seem too heartless to provide a means for the criminal to provide restitution.
I’m sure a workable compromise could be to give the violator a warning the first time and one deportation free of charge with the understanding that if they violate the border again, then they will be expected to provide service and pay for their crime.
And again, they will earn their citizenship upon completion of the wall. Seems more than fair, kind and just.
Technically? Yes, but it’s legal slavery: the thirteenth amendment forbids slavery “except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted.”
However, your proposal violates the thirteenth amendment, inasmuch as it requires only that someone be taken into custody, not convicted of a crime.
Even if you change it such that only those folks convicted of some crime or another involving border crossing were put to work, it’d almost certainly violate the eighth amendment.
And even if it didn’t, it’d violate common sense. The wall is a boondoggle, and using slave labor to build it doesn’t turn it into less of a boondoggle. If you really want to use slave labor to build something, why not use it to build schools, or solar power farms, or something that’s useful?
Look ,the US is a nice place. And sure, it’s got more well paying jobs than Mexico or Ethiopia or whatever. But it’s not Working- grueling- hours- of- hard- labor-for- free good. It really isn’t that good.
Fair enough. The prospect of working on the border wall may prove to be a huge incentive not to cross the border in the first place… and if one of the goals is to discourage illegal immigration - this might just be the ticket.
As for whether or not this is slave labor, legal or not, I think we are getting into semantics. Of course try and convict in a court of law first.
No. But illegal immigrants aren’t felony criminals, by and large…and if they are, they would go to prison where they mainly aren’t used for extremely harsh physical labor. Like building a wall in the sun in 120 degree heat in a freaking desert.
I hope you just don’t get the issues or understand what you are saying or suggesting. If so then I urge you to educate yourself. If not then I really don’t have much to say to you outside of the pit wrt this.
So, this is a completely voluntary project now? You are going to offer complete citizenship and pay as well as, presumably housing and food for the workers? Sure, you could do all of this. I seriously doubt you will get all of the illegals to agree, but you will certainly get a lot. After you train them, put in rudimentary safety procedures, feed and house them and such, though, what you will end up with is a pretty crappy wall that is still going to cost quite a bit. That’s the thing…even if we go with your first take and enslave the illegals and force them to work on the wall (and my, won’t we look good on the international front from that? :smack:), it’s still going to cost. I mean, you weren’t planning to work the laborers to death, were you? You were planning to, well, force them to work, i.e. you need to keep them on the wall somehow, which entails guards and such, right? You were going to feed them, right? And, you do realize that picking produce or even doing some construction doesn’t grant the magic ability to build such a wall as The Trumpster envisions…right? You are going to need to train these folks, provision them, equip them, then guard and monitor them.
You starting to envision the issues even leaving aside the slavery bit? This is the thing most people don’t seem to get. Every time we have a discussion that some conservative genius has about putting welfare recipients to work building roads or dams completely misses the fact that we don’t do shit like we used to in the 30’s anymore. Construction today, especially large scale construction, is a much more vertical set of skills than it was in the old days. We also don’t accept the sorts of death tolls that they used to handwave away.
So, rather than hire skilled citizens to do the work, creating jobs and income, you would have unskilled labor do it instead for what-room and board? And this is to stop what again-unskilled labor from coming in and taking jobs from skilled citizens?
Getting into whether or not building a border wall is the tight thing to do is a legitimate debate to have. I am simply going with the assumption that we plan to build a wall and want Mexico to pay for it. If that is the premise, my proposed solution seems elegant and workable.
Rather, let’s start from the premise that we want to colonize Mars, and that we want people who have a lot of drive to be our colonists. If that is the premise, why not force those convicted of speeding to be the colonists? Elegant, workable!
If your proposal is meant as seriously as mine, I apologize for missing the satire.
Well, you just need to make it into a law, it’d probably go into the Supreme Court to be debated for a while, then you have to solve all the mess with Mexico taking exception to having their citizens used as slave labor, probably the UN…
You “solution” is elegant in its simplicity, but it is only simple because you leave out the pesky details…like is it voluntary?
What do you feed them?
What(if anything) do you pay them?
Where do you house them?
Who is going to train them?
What do you tell the skilled citizens that don’t get the jobs that this project promised?
edited to add: You don’t have a proposal-You have a bumper sticker.