There is more evidence that *Geezers *were involved.
Not accurate at all, even a country bumpkin showed them to you years ago.
Well there is that and also that what you showed can be explained with other less fancy reasons.
You see, to compete you still have to register and be vetted by your amateur Olympic group before going to the big time Olympics (for example), but there is no evidence of even that.
So if I break the three minute mile it just doesn’t count unless it happens at an Olympic event.
If I sprout wings and fly it doesn’t matter because there is no olympic event for unassisted flight. “Reality” doesn’t even exist outside of peers, fans, and witnesses. So long as Egyptologists refuse to consider the evidence for steps then they still mustta used ramps.
[QUOTE=cladking]
So if I break the three minute mile it just doesn’t count unless it happens at an Olympic event.
[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t count if it’s not documented, recorded and verified by a valid and trusted 3rds party. You could tell us all day long how you did it but no one is going to believe your assertion until it’s been proved and verified.
No one believes your various assertions in this thread because you’ve give zero proof outside of your unsubstantiated (and often wild) assertion that it’s so.
If you sprout wings and learn to fly (outside of the fact that it’s physically impossible on this planet unless you are really small and have hollow bones :p), no one is going to believe you if you simply assert you can do those things. You’d need to get a trusted and valid 3rd party to corroborate your new abilities and verify that they are real before anyone, outside of the credulous sort you seem used to dealing with, are going to believe it. Even then they will probably be skeptical, since it’s impossible and all, so extraordinary claims are going to need extraordinary proofs.
Which brings us back to YOUR assertions and ‘theories’. Extraordinary claims are going to need extraordinary proofs, especially when they (the more reasonable and less woo laden) fly in the face of conventional and archeologically backed explanations. And you’ve yet to offer ANY proofs, extraordinary or not…merely asserted stuff basically out of your ass, and expect folks to take those assertions seriously. Why this seemingly simple concept is difficult for you to grasp after pages and pages of folks telling you think (in multiple threads) is beyond me, but maybe this time it will get through. No one is going to take you seriously until and unless you take the subject seriously enough to do some basic research, model your theory and get it peer reviewed. Until then it’s just another wild and crazy (CT in some aspects) internet assertion by some guy who has multiple times shown that he doesn’t know many of the basics, makes hyperbolic claims that are unsubstantiated and tends to go off into walls of woo and mysticism at the drop of a hat.
What XT said. Dedicated amateurs make contributions to science and our understanding of history. Consider Tim Jenison, who developed a theory about how the 17th-century Dutch painter Johannes Vermeer was able to achieve his photorealistic look: a system of mirrors and a lens, not merely an incredible eye.
To demonstrate that his theory was sound, Jenison spent years asserting it on message boards. He had no evidence other than his own interpretations and imagination, and convinced no one that he was correct.
Wait, no, that’s not it. He actually reproduced a Vermeer painting using his method, using 17th-century technology, showing that it was possible, or even likely, that Vermeer used the same system.
Now, Jenison is a multi-millionaire who spent 5+ years on his project. But even a relative layman of modest means can, say, model a water counterweight system, or try to weave a grass rope, or anything that’d give your theory some backing.
The extraordinary claim in this case is that bumpkins made strong by superstition could drag 6 1/2 million to9ns up a ramp and then leave no evidenceand no cultural context to support it.
The titles of the builders are known and they are not cconsistent with the fantastic claim that dragging heavy stones is easy if you’re endangering your life to build a means for your dead king to live forever. These concepts simply are highly illogical and unfounded in the real world. In the real world where the pyramids exist and the ancients built them there is ample evidence bordering on proof that they lifted the stones one step at a time.
They did it the easy way not some hackneed, romantic, and fantastic ramps.
(By the way, I said If I flew not if I claimed to fly. I guess that was a dead end to make the point. It was about as likely as me sprouting wings)
While I’m at it maybe I can prove the sky is blue and the Pacific Ocean is wet.
It would be akin to showing a baby learns to walk a step at a time.
I just can’t imagine why some people think a model is important.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2250719/build_pyramid_using_water_counterweight/
Ramps make no sense but geysers do. Gotcha. 
Why is it we have such a poor understanding of these languages? It’s easier to teach English to a chimpanze than to learn his language.
What do you think is the barrier?
If their language is metaphysical then we just have to know a lot more about what it is to be a chimp. Meanwhile they can learn words but can’t express sentences in any current human language.
This is a journey of many steps and if I told you the destination you’d think I were mad. This first step is very very easy. All the evidence, logic, and cultural context says the stones were pulled up the five step pyramid one step at a time. Even common sense says dragging stones up ramps is far more difficult than taking a more direct route and this route is still in evidence while there has never been any evidence for ramps. Every single explanation of how ramps were used includes some form of the statement “they mustta used ramps”. What they don’t contain is any evidence that they did use ramps and the word “ramp” is unattested from the great pyramid building age.
It’s only belief and prejudice preventing people from seeing the obvious. We can’t believe in our own falibility or that ancient people could leave so much evidence and we couldn’t see it.
[QUOTE=cladking]
The extraordinary claim in this case is that bumpkins made strong by superstition could drag 6 1/2 million to9ns up a ramp and then leave no evidenceand no cultural context to support it.
[/QUOTE]
No, it’s not, because we know…KNOW…that the Greeks and Romans used ramps to do similar work. Something you repeatedly seem unable to grasp. Ramps WORK. They might or might not have been how the Egyptians actually solved the problem, but they work and have been used before and after the Egyptians. You can hem and haw all you like, you can say there is no Egyptian word for ‘ramp’ (based on your own extensive understanding of Old Kingdom hieroglyphics :p), but Egyptians used ramps, knew what ramps were and even incorporated them into their architecture (remember that temple I showed you a picture of earlier in this thread?). So, it’s plausible that they could have used ramps, and there is archeological evidence of ramps being used for something on the Giza plateau. So, an extraordinary claim would be for some machine that there is zero evidence (zero evidence that’s been presented so far and that anyone but you excepts as evidence).
Sorry, but this is bullshit, like so much of what you’ve presented. I’ve seen models as well as archeologists who have done real world experiments in trying to reverse engineer how the pyramids COULD have been built. From you I’ve seen jack shit so far except your unsubstantiated assertion. Ramps work. They have been used by humans to do similar jobs for thousands of years. There is archeological evidence of the use of ramps from all over the world. Machines such as you are suggesting, however, I’ve seen NO actual evidence. The Romans and Greeks, far more advanced than the Old Kingdom Egyptians used cranes, but none of them used a water counter balance system similar to the vague machine you’ve suggested (they did, however, use ramps :p).
In your own mind…a mind that seems fertile enough (all that horseshit no doubt), but that doesn’t actually know that much about real archeology or really engineering or a host of other things you’d need to know to be taken seriously. When you have a firm design for what the Egyptians COULD have done, when you’ve modeled it and then built at least a test model using materials and resources the Egyptians could plausibly have had AND you’ve tested it and it works, THEN you will have a real, honest to gods theory that would be interesting to see at the very least. Until then you have a lot of hot air and horseshit, and it’s going to take more than that to buck the mainstream in any but your own mind.
I’ve said this before. Everything I state is pretty much established fact or is a literary device to avoid constanytly saying “I believe”. I don’t believe and if I say the henu boat was shaped like the exoskeleton of a grasshopper and filled with what appeared to be his dorsal carapace then this is my interpretation of the evidence, the logic, or the cultural context or some admixture of all three;
1772a. N. was born on (the day of the feast) of the month; N. was conceived on (the day of the feast) of the half-month;
1772b. (for) he came forth with the dorsal carapace of a grasshopper,
Most of what I state is pretty obvious. There’s no rocket science or brain surgery here and there isn’t a lot of evidence to support any theory.
Truer words were never spoken.
It’s pretty simple so I never even bothered to draw any pictures until recently.
They hung a large “boat” over the side of the pyramid at 81’ 3". This boat had a very long cable that ran across the top of the pyramid and down the opposite side. At the bottom of the opposite side it was attached to a large sled full of stones.
The boat was filled with water until it was heavier than the stones and then it was released lifting the stones up the opposite side. Rather than tens of thousnds of mmen dragging stones up imaginary ramps they had a single man called the “ferryman” sitting in the shade sipping Perrier and operating the weir that filled the boat.
People don’t like the fact I’ve already established the fact that stones were pulled up one step at a time because they fear the next step really is geysers. After that the feces will fly.
127c. The abomination of N. is dung; N. rejects urine.
127d. N. loathes his abomination.
128a. The abomination of N., it is dung; he eateth not that abomination,
128b. just as at the same time Set shrinks from these two companions who voyage over the sky.
Hmm. “N.” Is obviously the pyramid and “dorsal carapace” is obviously a reference to a ramp of some sort, likely greased in some way. So my irrefutable logic and cultural evidence points to ramps.
Reading through this, I was struck by the classic argument of how coconuts could have come to the British Isles…
There is so much wrong with your simple solution that it’s not worth even going into. I can see why you wouldn’t want to build even a replica, however, since it would be a spectacular failure of epic proportions if you actually tried to do it. I would love to see your expression, though, as you tried to sit in the shade and drink Perrier while trying to operate the thing. Hope you have insurance!
As I suspected, in order to build the pyramid this way, you need the pyramid to be already there, to sling the cable over.
Not to mention that they would need to build some sort of outrigger (and invent the block and tackle or some sort of pulley system) to bring the stones up vertically, unless they wanted them scraping along the sides of the pyramid. The thought that one guy sipping water would be all that’s needed to make this ridiculous machine work is probably the most plausible part of all of this (off the top of my head I’m guessing they would have needed alien rope technology at the least to make them the equivalent of modern synthetic fiber rope, since natural fiber spliced rope would not have been able to do what he’s suggesting at the lengths he’s suggestion…it’s just not possible to do this without a block and tackle and a pulley system and would have been a nightmare to use if they tried to actually build the thing even in Roman times, let alone in Old Kingdom Egypt).
No… …they did no such thing. They built a ramp to besiege a city but this inbvolved pushing a single siege engine up it and not 6 1/2 MILLION TONS of stone.
Egyptologists agree that the word “ramp” is unattested from the great pyramid building age. I really don’t need their permission to state facts. The word is unattested. You can read every single thing the ancients wrote in about five minutes other than the PT (much faster if you’re a fast reader) and the word doesn’t exist. The concept of using ramps to lift anything doesn’t appear in the PT either. Well you could claim that when they said “Men and gods your arms beneath me as you raise me and lift me to heaven” referred to ramps. I’ve seen far sillier interpretations of the PT.
There is no archaeological evidence that any stone was ever lifted on any great pyramid with ramps. Virtually every single known “ramp” is too flimsy, points in the wrong direction or points at the base of the pyramid. This is very strong evidence that stones were delivered to the BASE OF THE PYRAMID and some other mechanism was used to lift them up the side.
It’s all being misinterpreted.
How they could have been built is irrelevant. Aliens could have used levitation rays. What matters is the evidence.
“Reverse engineering” by definition is starting with the final product and working backward. You and Egyptoilogists don’t understand what reverse engineering is. They are doing reverse reverse engineering because they are working from ramps.
There are no similar jobs in human history. I suppose rthe Panama Canal comes closest and they used ramps to lift the material out of it. The Berlin airlift involved about 1/3rd the weight of the Great Pyramid.
I have a great deal of detail about how this all worked. They described the sound of the 20 ton sled against the 70 degree side of the pyramid as being like the “lowing of a bull”. I’d wager this is another of thousands ofd concepts that not even one Egyptologist researched to try to understand the PT.
It’s impossible to understand the culture if ytou don’t understand the PT and it’s impossible to understand the PT if you think you know everything and you think they were stinky footed bumpkins.
Utterance 538.
1302a. To say: Back, thou lowing ox.
1302b. Thy head is in the hand of Horus; thy tail is in the hand of Isis;
1302c. the fingers of Atum are at thy horns.
If you know they were superstitious then it just makes perfect sense that you’d need three stinky footed Gods to subdue one little bull. But if you look up all these words and solve them one at a time then you know the perspective and the meaning is clear enough.
Egyptologists were so busy learning Egyptian they forgot you need to know English. They were so busy calling them superstitious they forgot to understand physics, logic, biology, and common sense.
Of course this stuff doesn’t make sense in English if you believe the people were superstitious. But it says everything about how dndndr-boat rigged and what it was like to workon the loading platfform if they weren’t.
.
This is wrong on every level. 
The first course of stones isn’t lifted at all. The second course can be lifted on the first one using couynterweights or pulled up from the first course.
At these very low levels the counterweights were very ineffective. For this reason I beleive many of the stones were pulled directly up the pyramid by the cliff face counterweights rather than the main pyramid counrterweights.
But in any case you need to remember that the stones at the bottom of the pyramid required almost no lifting at all. The work required to lift a stone is its weight times its height. A 2 ton stone at the top of the pyramid required 960 times as much work to lift as a 2 ton stone on the second course.