The stones were pulled up a 70 degree “ramp” (for lack of a better word) that was the side of the step. They were pulled up one step at a time in the dndndr-boat overseen by the nephthys by the henu boat of isis and was suspended from the dm-sceptres. This involved virtually no friction at all.
Rope doesn’t lose strenght by being spliced to another. They used a chain across the pyramid top according to the PT and ropes down either side.
It wasn’t all that long ago that the entire industrial revolution was powered by fiber ropes and leather drive belts. You can still find used drive belts at flea markets.
[QUOTE=cladking]
No… …they did no such thing. They built a ramp to besiege a city but this inbvolved pushing a single siege engine up it and not 6 1/2 MILLION TONS of stone.
[/QUOTE]
Have you considered actually reading some history texts, instead of whatever you are quoting from? The Romans and Greeks used ramps for more than siege engines, they used them in constructions. I realize that this goes against your fundamental image of ramps being only for stinky footed savages, but ramps have been used for construction for as long as humans have been building large scale objects.
So you claim, but the Egyptians STILL USED THE FUCKING THINGS. What part of that DON’T you understand? I fucking showed you a gods damned picture of one. So, whether they had a hieroglyph or word for ‘ramp’ or not (I’m guessing they did and, as with most of your bullshit you are simply wrong, but I actually don’t know this one) they still knew what they were and used them.
The Greeks used a similar ramp to move and lift into place stones much, MUCH larger…so, again, you are simply wrong. This doesn’t mean that the Egyptians used ramps to build the Giza pyramids, but it makes it plausible that they could have. As opposed to your own pet machine, which is totally implausible. Again, extraordinary claims and extraordinary evidence, of which you’ve provided exactly ziltch.
Sez you.
They, unlike you, have tested their theories in the real world to see if they actually work. Which is why they can claim, with SOMETHING resembling evidence, that their theory is at least plausible. You, on the other hand, have a lot of hot air and bullshit for a theory…you can’t even explain it in detail, and your attempts so far have been laughable since you are obviously trying your best to put the best face on it AND you equally obviously don’t have a clue about engineering or load strength or carry capacity or…well, basically anything. You also don’t really understand one of the simplest machines humans have ever used, OR what it’s actual function is, let alone it’s historical context (I’m talking about the dreaded ramp here btw). Seriously, before dismissing them you should at least have a rudimentary understanding of what they are, what they do, how they work…and who used them and for what. Because, frankly, you don’t know anything about them if you think that they were used only for sieges.
Sorry, but again, you are wrong. The job would be ‘moving large heavy stone from one elevation to a higher elevation’, and there were plenty of cultures that did similar work. There were even other cultures that built large pyramids, but the JOB would be moving large heavy stone from one place to another of differing elevation. Again, you show your ignorance pretty much across the board by even saying something this silly.
Just ignoring this flight of woo based mysticism and moving on…
[QUOTE=cladking]
The stones were pulled up a 70 degree “ramp” (for lack of a better word) that was the side of the step. They were pulled up one step at a time in the dndndr-boat overseen by the nephthys by the henu boat of isis and was suspended from the dm-sceptres. This involved virtually no friction at all.
[/QUOTE]
Um…ok. So, the Egyptians had access to ‘virtually’ frictionless ramps (though they didn’t have a word for ‘ramp’ :p) and scaffolding system at 70 degrees…and your evidence for this is your interpretation of some Egyptian script. Gotcha.
Yeah, they do, especially if the fibers are fairly short in length. And natural fiber ropes wear out faster and take a larger diameter to lift a load (and also has less tensile strength), especially a dead lift. And the Egyptians of this time didn’t have pulleys or block and tackle systems (first example I could find was at least a thousand years later), which meant even more strain on the thing (plus abrasion, even though they had ‘virtually’ frictionless ramps they got from the aliens).
Sure they did. But they also had access to better natural fiber material, better weaving techniques, and, of course, superior belaying and pulley/block and tackle technology AND and understanding on how to employ it most effectively. And the ropes still failed quite often, despite all of that.
And there’s so much wrong with your simple solkution the builders should answer the Monty Python.
GUARD #1: What – a swallow carrying a coconut?
ARTHUR: It could grip it by the husk!
GUARD #1: It’s not a question of where he grips it! It’s a simple
question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a 1 pound
coconut.
1130a. When thou sayest, “statues”, in respect to these stones,
1130b. which are like fledglings of swallows under the river-bank;
Of course we all know even full grown swallows can’t carry coconuts so fledglings certainly can’t drag 2 1/2 ton stones along the contours of the ground like they are being pulled through the air.
It is very apparent that there are superstitious bumpkins at play somewhere and it’s probably not Monty Python or the pyramid builders.
The steps as described by the gravimetric scan are 81’ 3" tall and the angle of repose used by the builders was normally 70 to 72 degrees. The normal force on a steep “ramp” is very very low so the toital friction is very very low. Indeed since there were no bumpkins on the ramp trying to get a purchase they could grease the ramp to reduce friction even further. Total friction would be a small percentage of dragging stones up ramps.
They weren’t ‘virtually no friction at all’ which is what you claimed. Here’s the physics if you are interested in actually learning something. You’d also need to calculate the same thing for the ‘boat’ btw, since this would be a complete system (to really be precise you’d also need to talk about the material of the stone and of the inclined plane, but even the basics are going to show it’s not frictionless, virtually or otherwise).
But let me ask you…how did they build the structure and the ramps in order to get your machine into place? As another poster noted earlier, you kind of need a pyramid in order to use your machine. Aliens give that to them first? Without the machine to move the blocks, how did they move the blocks of the foundation and build the scaffolding and belaying system and everything else involved? They use magic for that part, or were some guys dragging stones involved there? And if there, why not later? Why go through all this elaborate horseshit for a machine that, even if it worked would be extremely complex and highly dangerous, with gods know what sort of failure rate? If they dragged the stones there to build enough of the pyramid to build your ridiculous machine, seems to me they could do it for the rest…and that, using Occam, that’s the simplest and most elegant solution.
You have no evidence to show that. You are unable to produce anything but your metaphysical mumbo jumbo about your own imagined interpretation of some ancient symbols. You cannot explain any of your theory without relying on your own unique ability to read these symbols, and there is no physical evidence which supports your theory which does not equally support alternate and more practical theories. Every one of your explanations is based on Egyptologists being wrong even though that has no bearing on whether your theory is correct. You believe CO2 geysers were used even thought there is evidence of their existence that does not come from your own mind. You speak about ropes and cables and chains yet you cannot say how or what they are made from. You have no idea what is necessary to lift 30,000 pounds of stone hundreds of feet into the air, no concept of the friction produced in such an effort or the load on the imaginary pulley system you have, or how the stones and counterweights were attached, and most importantly how the rate of lifting was controlled.
There is no amount of interpretation that will prove your case. You must show the actual physical evidence that can be examined to prove out your theory. Your interpretations of symbols, diatribes about Egyptologists and stinky footed bumpkins are not evidence. Your belief in meta-physics and natural languages are not evidence.
What is evident is that your own confidence in your theory is paper thin. Charlatans never want to expose their secrets to sunlight lest they crumble to dust. If you actually believed their was validity to your theory based on facts you would find those facts and present them rather than showing us you have none with your parade of nonsense.
This is painfully reminiscent of the guy who could debunk Einstein’s theory of Relativity…but couldn’t even use square roots to work the Lorentz equations.
He was so sure he was right, he just couldn’t be bothered to do any actual work to show he was right.
Cite? I know he studied Egyptian alchemy, but haven’t heard about the pyramids and gravity.
They didn’t do it all once, you son of a silly person! (Not really intended as an insult, just another Holy Grail reference, since we seem to be doing that.) As noted before, the largest stone was about 8800 tons, so you are overestimating by 737 times. The average block was more like 2.5 tons, which is a lot easier to handle.
Anecdote: Fresh out of Archaeology/Journalism/English Literature but not yet Engineering/Data Processing/Interior Design school I took my useless diploma and did the sensible thing, I went to work in a warehouse, assembling pallet trucks. Ours were rated up to 2.25 tons with the standard nylon wheels. I had dragged around freight carts loaded with 1.75 tons of crap and wanted to see whether I could move the max the truck could handle, so I loaded it up. Moving it was fairly easy once I got going, but those chintzy nylon wheels shattered going over a simple expansion joint. What I learned was that a dozen guys would have no problem dragging the typical block on a sledge with a slightly lubricated surface up a 7% grade. And that the steel wheels with rubber tires were worth the extra fifty bucks.
My theory on the Great Pyramid, which belongs to me, is as follows: The huge blocks of the King’s Chamber were why the big-ass ramp would have been built, and it would have been built concurrently with the lower section, not gradually added to with each layer, and maintaining the 7% slope with each layer. This is because maintaining that slope, especially with blocks you hoped to recycle in the upper courses, is, in engineering terms, a major pain in the ass. Better to use smaller exterior ramps and Houdin’s internal ramps. I still haven’t worked out how the capstone got there; my current theory involves a time machine and a CH-47 Chinook, and needs work.
Friction is nearly irrelevant. Of more concern is the total friction in the three dm-sceptres that support the loads. The counterweight would have to be approximately 8% heavier than the load and it was about 15 tons so maybe 16 or 17 tons of water. At 64 lbs per cubic foot this would mean the henu boat was about 750 cubic foot (it had a higher capacity for extremely large stones above the “kings chamber”). It was irregularly shaped (like a grass hoper) and about 18’ long. This leaves the top about 7’ x 7’ and the widest section about 8’ from the top.
This is a tiny little boat by Egyptian standards. Large Egyptian boats could easily float 200 tons. The big difference with this boat was that the ribbing was on the outside (as evidenced physically and culturally), it was on skis, and it was pitched on the inside. It was composed of short pieces of wood principally by weight.
I believe “alchemy” is a confusion of Egyptian chemistry.
Newton believed the Egyptians knew the circumferance of the earth which he needed to establish his theory of gravity. He was correct but his estimation was much more accurate than there’s.
I should have corrected this earlier and neglected to. The largest stone known from the era was about 1000 tons. The largest stone know “in” any pyramid are the support stones under the SE corner of G2 and theseare about 200 tons. The largest stone known in G1 is above the king’s chamber and might approach 80 tons (wildly different estimates exist from 45 to 80 tons).
The pyramid weighs in at 6 1/2 million tons. Egyptologists believe it was dragged up ramps.
Not unreasonable.
I’m not terribly interested in how the bottom of the pyramid was built because these stones required a great amount of quarrying due to their number but required very little lifting due to how low they are. The entire job is stupendous but it’s the lifting that we have it all wrong and obviously so.
It is very apparent from the evidence that all the stones were lifted by the same means. Find how the stones at 300’ were lifted and you know how all of them were lifted; all the stones were lifted one step at a time.
Now all wew need is to know what exactly pulled them up.
I am suspicious of the extremely precise measurements of an incomplete pile of rock bandied about by Egyptologists and amateurs alike. Lengths of sides plus or minus 58mm, my aunt Fanny. The facing stones at the base are gone, fercryinoutloud. Those people are hoping and guessing.
I’m a little suspicious as well but there are extreme accuracies present in the ruins. For instance Petrie said that nowhere in the joints of the casing stones is there a gap even large enought to slip in a piece of paper. He referred to some of the work as having “optical precision”. He’s often considered a crackpot but Chis Dunn has shown that some statues and other shapes with the characteristics of what he calls machine parts are accurate to even greater tolerances.
I believe this precision was required to maintain water tight structures. The builders then trampled mud into the seams to stop leakage altogether. This should all be easily enough proven if we just had the data.
All of the evidence supports this theory and the evidence is the source of the theory. It is fleshed out a little better all the time as more evidence comes to light.
Look at the two cliff face counterweights for instance. This might be the focal point of the entire theory since these are so well evidenced. Both are fed by canals that still exist. One has water erosion in it and the water originated on the water catchment device that surrounds the pyramid. This was a water tight structure with the pyramid in it. It was perfectly flat and smooth and was surrounded by a coffer dam. The western counterweight is defined by a canal and an artificial extension of the cliff face as well as being the northern most p[oint on a line between a ramp out of the quarry, the vertical line near the east side of the pyramid and the 300’ line down the artificial cliff face.
The eastern counterweight is even better defined by the ramp that runs between the queens pyramid and the first mastabas all the way down to the Sphinx Quarry. This is a very flat very long ramp. This pulled stones straight up to the causeway no doubt. Another ramp lies at a slight angle toward the main quarry along this same line.
More and more evidence just keeps coming to light yet still no evidence for men dragging stones up ramps has ever been found. Just last year a cistern was found just “downstream” of the G2 enclosure that could only be filled by running water. This is high and dry in a desert so this makes no sense at all unless they had running water. Again this suggests these enclosures not only had all the characteristics of water catchment devices but were, in fact, water catchment devices. But there are still no ramps. 150 years of intensive searching for ramps has come up empty handed.
This is just the way it is. Egyptologists know they’ll evenrtually find evidence for ramps because they know they mustta used ramps. The search goes on while the actual way to build is right under their noses.
Petrie was of the Archaeologist Classic mold, so I wouldn’t trust his more enthusiastic numbers. Chris Dunn is one of the Bosnian Pyramid guys who wouldn’t know a hill if he rolled down it. Crank.
The Egyptians did a real nice job on the more visible parts. I can’t deny it. But a half a millimeter holding water might as well be an inch, and wouldn’t be easy to caulk. Better to have a greater gap and drive oakum in it. Plenty of old ropes from hauling blocks and bitumen or pitch from the general neighborhood. Probably would’ve left traces, too, but none found. Oh, and mud makes lousy caulk in a wet environment.
You are just making these things up. You cannot show that any of those things are true. You also claim now that there were ramps despite repeatedly claiming there were no ramps and no word for ramp. Once again you have absolutely nothing, your theory does not hold water.
(Not really intended as an insult, just another 