How were the pyramids in Egypt built?

[TriPolar]

@cladking

Mebbe they used three monkeys, each with its hands over a different sensory organ.

It’s mightily difficult to understand when you’re shutting out what someone is saying.

Always with the projection. I’m not shutting out what you are saying, what you say varies from wrong to senseless, it’s right there in my list of disproven claims. It’s pretty close to the bottom and likely to fall off soon, but it’s there. At the same you have shut out what everybody has said to you.

You are very amusing, to yourself for reasons difficult for me to understand, for the rest of us because it so easy to pick apart your argument. You dig a deeper hole each time you respond and there’s no seltzer coming out of that hole.

So just fess up, why do you do this? Do you believe in some kind of magic that the rest of us can’t perceive? And I don’t mean any kind of figurative interpretation, I mean supernatural forces that cannot be explained by physics. Or do you believe that you and you alone have mastered an ancient language that you cannot explain because of concepts we can’t perceive? Or are you just entertaining yourself by dancing around the profound absurdity of your claims in the face of constant derision and ridicule?

[dropzone]

cladking, I was paging through the little ads in the back of Astronomy magazine and discovered this guy. Like you, he’s a monomaniac (not intended as an insult; we just all have our hobbies) with a theory that will blow science wide open. What he has that you don’t is a website. And a book, but self-published, physical books are a money pit, even if you charge as much as he does. What you do have is a bookful of your writings in this thread, all of which belong to you, as noted in the SDMB membership agreement. GoDaddy or 1and1 will set you up with a domain and a website kit for a pittance. Public-domain photos and pictures of the pyramids are free for the taking, and a friend can make diagrams for you. You’ll have an online presence in a day, and the beauty part is that nobody can disagree with you!

Angelo Pettolino, the A and P of the AP Theory has not figured out the economics, though, which is an advantage you have, since you are not completely insane. First is the book, as already discussed. Tossing together an ebook, though, is child’s play, free, and you can still charge for it.

Second is his marketing campaign. He’s been buying quarter-page ads in Astronomy, Smithsonian, and others for years, but all he has to show for it is fewer than 34,000 hits on his website. Skip the print ads, and buy space on sites oriented more towards new theories that will overthrow everything we thought we knew.

To that end, the third step is to toss a bone to the Ancient Astronauts people by adding aliens. It doesn’t have to be much; just a couple “what ifs” that don’t detract from your main thesis should do it. It’s a large market looking for something new.

Step four: These people have money and they aren’t afraid of throwing it away on woo-ish crap! There are loads of companies devoted to separating fools from their money, and loads of tools to make it easier for you to monetize your website while satisfying their need to waste money. It’s a service that is also a win-win, and everybody’s happy.

You have a lot of potential, and you are wasting it working on one messageboard at a time. I’m not promising anything, but do as I suggest and next year you could be a speaker at a conference at Roswell.

[Trinopus]

@iiandyiiii

New theory – cladking is world-building for a very elaborate RPG scenario. It takes place at the height of Ancient Egypt, but it has a twist – instead of religion guiding the society and monument builders, it’s some sort of “metaphysical” (note that this remains undefined) scientific system. The “Priest” class will actually have abilities based on these metaphysical principles, with high-level priests able to utilize natural features like the high-powered CO2 cold-water geysers that populate his fictional version of the kingdom of ancient Egypt.

I’ll play along – I don’t fully get the Priest class, so here’s my character:

Anubo the Weary is a mid-level warrior (with a few levels of rogue thrown in from time ) – the son of a poverty-stricken noble family who was forced into the Egyptian army to survive and earn money. He distinguished himself in many battles and rose to be one of the higher-ranking members of the Pharoah’s personal guard, but he is very suspicious of the Priests and their so-called metaphysical science – he doesn’t trust their growing influence on the Pharoah, but can’t deny their power as they manipulate the mysterious natural forces of the earth to raise great masses of stone for the brand new pyramid construction project.

I really like this interpretation. It’s both viscerally satisfying and logically consistent. And, indeed, it could be fun!

My character is Khefer at Tuomi, a high-level priest-engineer, who knows all sorts of deep alchemical secrets involving natron and carbon dioxide and geyser summoning. Also, don’t piss him off, 'cause he knows how to fill a room with CO2. Several of his rivals have perished that way – ah, that is, struck down by the Gasping Death-curse of Seth.

[cladking]

@Trinopus

I really like this interpretation. It’s both viscerally satisfying and logically consistent. And, indeed, it could be fun!

My character is Khefer at Tuomi, a high-level priest-engineer, who knows all sorts of deep alchemical secrets involving natron and carbon dioxide and geyser summoning. Also, don’t piss him off, 'cause he knows how to fill a room with CO2. Several of his rivals have perished that way – ah, that is, struck down by the Gasping Death-curse of Seth.

Judges 7

[Czarcasm]

@cladking

Judges 7

Cubs-4
Pirates-1

[simster]

[QUOTE=cladking]

For instance “palace” was the place that a natural phenomenon occurred when it had to be constructed.
[/QUOTE]

you realize that natural phenomena occur everyday, everywhere, right?

In fact - there isn’t a single place on earth where, right this very instant, there isn’t a natural phenomenon occurring.

[cladking]

@simster

you realize that natural phenomena occur everyday, everywhere, right?

In fact - there isn’t a single place on earth where, right this very instant, there isn’t a natural phenomenon occurring.

Indeedy do.

…And if you must build a structure to house it then that structure is a “palace” by definition in the ancient language.

[simster]

@cladking

Indeedy do.

…And if you must build a structure to house it then that structure is a “palace” by definition in the ancient language.

since all structures are places to house natural phenomena, even the shitter - then the term ‘palace’ becomes as to mean nothing at all.

Are the Pyramids there to “house” the geyser or was the geyser at a convenient place to build the pyramid to house something else?

You have no internal logic or consistency.

[cladking]

@Latro

Also, where do you get that Sekhmet had anything to do with water, or replace Hathor?

As I mentioned earlier nothing was defined in the ancient language; everything was named. Since statement as such was forbidden by various grammatical rules nothing could be defined. To understand the nature of something you had to know its names. The more of these names you understood the deeper your understanding.

Sekhmet didn’t “replace” hathor but became another layer on top of her. She was a layer at 81’ 3" with more power. “Empowerer”, “Powerful Of Heart”, “Mightier Than The Netjeru”, “Lady Of All Powers”, “Lady Of The Waters Of Life”, “The Source”. She operated the oil lamp known as the mks-sceptre that signaled the men to work. “Awakener”, “Enlightener”, “Lady Of The Magic Lamp”, “Sekhmet, Who Rouseth The People”.

The Hundred Names of Sekhmet

It’s all right there, right in front of our faces but we can’t see it because it’s so different than what we expect. Sekhmet kept the fire burning by swamping it!! This is what they said and we just jumped to the conclusion that they were confused and stupid. Once you assume something can never be understood it’s impossible to ever understand it.

Adam didn’t “name” the animals because people needed a convenient way to refer to them. “He” named the animals to differentiate their characteristics to make them and knowledge of their behavior useful to people. By naming the animals they were understood to the same degree they could be named. It’s all just a different way of thinking. They knew nothing and knowing it making them powerful. We know nothing and haven’t a clue so even with all our theory and technology we use it to rape the earth the kill one another while we’re all adrift with no anchor and no sail.

[Slow_Moving_Vehicle]

@Peter_Morris

Oh, come on, it takes seconds to google it:

https://www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/Leo-Kottke/Tiny-Island#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j5ilgP1Ov8

Yes, but I wanted to see if cladking would respond to the question, to see if he could or would show interest in anything outside of his pet obsession. Posting the lyrics was an interesting diversion from his pyramid fixation.

[Peter_Morris]

@cladking

Adam didn’t “name” the animals because people needed a convenient way to refer to them. “He” named the animals to differentiate their characteristics to make them and knowledge of their behavior useful to people.

So lets be clear, you are a Biblical literalist creationist?

[Slow_Moving_Vehicle]

So much wrong.

@cladking

Animal languages/ ancient language is a reflection of the wiring of the brain.

All languages reflect the wiring of the brain, but only in the sense that the human brain has cognitive modules for acquiring, using and processing language.

This wiring is a sort natural logic like the logic of mathematics.

Language is arbitrary. There is no fixed or essential connection between a word and its referent. If Wikipedia is to be trusted, the Old Egyptian word for sky was (phonetically) hry. The Sumerian word for it was ulhe, along with about seven other words that could be so translated. The Proto-Indo-European (another contemporary) was *nébʰos.

Mathematics, on the other hand, is not arbitrary. Pi = 3.14… no matter if you call it pi, tres punta uno cuatro, or 三個點一四.

This means the language was naturally logical.

Wrong. See “language is arbitrary”, above.

As new knowledge was acquired it was added directly to the language forcing the language to evolve. But just as modern science doesn’t “change” it does evolve. Modern languages change and are always splitting further but the ancient language was “fixed” by the natural logic of nature as manifested in the organism (brain).

No language is “fixed”. Also, how in the hell does science - or anything - evolve without changing?

Ancient language collapsed.

No, it didn’t.

As human knowledge exploded with the invention of writing the language became increasingly complex.

You realize that writing was invented about eight centuries before the Egyptians built the pyramids, right? So if the invention of writing was the “Babel event” that caused the “collapse” of the “ancient language”, then your beloved PTs are written in the “confused” modern language.

Within only 1200 years the language had become so complex that the average man was at a disadvantage to the learned. It became unfair to determine issues based on the ability of an individual to present his case. By edict modern language became the law of the land.

How exactly do you know this? What evidence do you have of this edict? You can quote and source it, I assume?

All people spoke the same language and the same problems were occurring everywhere so when the new way arose at “babel” it spread everywhere and each dialect became a distinct language and began evolving in distinct directions since they were no longer tied to reality or to logic.

And this? Especially given that we have writings for at least two other languages spoken in the Middle East at the time of the pyramid-builders: Sumerian and Akkadian.

So given that you obviously have no understanding of how languages work, a jumbled idea of the history of the ancient world, and no evidence whatsoever of the claims you make about language, I will take a page out of your playbook and say that your “ancient language” claims are debunked.

[Slow_Moving_Vehicle]

@cladking

As I mentioned earlier nothing was defined in the ancient language; everything was named. Since statement as such was forbidden by various grammatical rules nothing could be defined. To understand the nature of something you had to know its names. The more of these names you understood the deeper your understanding.

NeoPlatonic mystical gibberish.

Adam didn’t “name” the animals because people needed a convenient way to refer to them. “He” named the animals to differentiate their characteristics to make them and knowledge of their behavior useful to people. By naming the animals they were understood to the same degree they could be named. It’s all just a different way of thinking. They knew nothing and knowing it making them powerful. We know nothing and haven’t a clue so even with all our theory and technology we use it to rape the earth the kill one another while we’re all adrift with no anchor and no sail.

Y’know, I kept waiting for the King o’ Clad to break out the Templars or Illuminati - as much an occultist as he is, I figured it was only a matter of time - but claddy is *hardcore * old-school. Sees my Templars and raises me Adam! Pimp as hell!

[cladking]

@Peter_Morris

So lets be clear, you are a Biblical literalist creationist?

No! Hardly.

What I am is someone who believes our ancestors were very clever and highly capable because their thought was ordered by logic and nature. They in turn ordered reality itself by conferring human characteristics to it which served as a mnemonic to remember even the finest points of theory.

From this perspective the Bible becomes a relatively interesting document since it is apparently derived from what people at the time considered “holy writing”. At the time it was written there was still lots of ancient metaphysical writing that survived and other “holy books” were derived from a confused understanding of the ancient writing. This mean there are tidbits of the ancient knowledge everywhere from the Bible to the hermetic texts. Once you understand the ancient language you’ll have insights into exactly how it will be misunderstood by modern language speakers.

Much of modern “reality” itself is a sort of confusion of ancient thought carried by vocabulary, religion, and the still existing natural wiring of the brain.

We don’t need to know any of this so we can get back to ancient thinking but we do need to understand it to understand ourselves and the nature of humanity. We might need to understand it to get over the hump caused by the development of ever more powerful technology.

I’m not extremely interested in religion and not even all that interested in the pyramids. I’m interested in the pyramids as a means to show what the people who built them were like in reality and to better understand them and myself. This is not a task for a single man. People might see me whipping by but they don’t seem to see the cause; I have a sabre toothed tiger by the tail.

[cladking]

@Slow_Moving_Vehicle

All languages reflect the wiring of the brain, but only in the sense that the human brain has cognitive modules for acquiring, using and processing language.

I don’t think so. I think these “modules” are a response by the brain to using an “unnatural” language. If we thought and spoke “naturally” these modules would each be a word and their organization would be grammar.

Language is arbitrary. There is no fixed or essential connection between a word and its referent. If Wikipedia is to be trusted, the Old Egyptian word for sky was (phonetically) hry. The Sumerian word for it was ulhe, along with about seven other words that could be so translated. The Proto-Indo-European (another contemporary) was *nébʰos.

Mathematics, on the other hand, is not arbitrary. Pi = 3.14… no matter if you call it pi, tres punta uno cuatro, or 三個點一四.

Our language is pretty arbitrary but this is due to drift. Ancient language and math are not arbitrary and are based on fixed definitions and the same operations.

Wrong. See “language is arbitrary”, above.

Computer language isn’t arbitrary. Ancient language was simply very complex and had many of the traits of computer language.

Also, how in the hell does science - or anything - evolve without changing?

Newtonian mechanics weren’t ended with relativity but merely modified.

You realize that writing was invented about eight centuries before the Egyptians built the pyramids, right? So if the invention of writing was the “Babel event” that caused the “collapse” of the “ancient language”, then your beloved PTs are written in the “confused” modern language.

No, no, no, no no.

There was 40,000 years of straight line human progress up to 2000 BC and writing was a very modern development at that time. It’s not a coincidence that the ancient language collapsed so soon afdter the invention of writing.

How exactly do you know this? What evidence do you have of this edict? You can quote and source it, I assume?

You’re joking right?

If this were widely known we wouldn’t be a species with amnesia. There wouldn’t a gap starting at 2000 BC and encompassing all human history before that time. We would know how the pyramids were built and have an understanding of the ancient “theory of evolution”. We’d know when agriculture was invented and why we raise goats instead of deer.

So given that you obviously have no understanding of how languages work, a jumbled idea of the history of the ancient world, and no evidence whatsoever of the claims you make about language, I will take a page out of your playbook and say that your “ancient language” claims are debunked.

That’s coolso long as you don’t forget ramps were debunked (see post #152) and we all remember to ask our favorite Egyptologist how the pyramids were built.

[cladking]

@Slow_Moving_Vehicle

NeoPlatonic mystical gibberish.

Y’know, I kept waiting for the King o’ Clad to break out the Templars or Illuminati - as much an occultist as he is, I figured it was only a matter of time - but claddy is *hardcore * old-school. Sees my Templars and raises me Adam! Pimp as hell!

This theory affects almost everything. Much of the modern world is DIRECTLY affected by it and more is indirectly affected. Very little of what we accept as reality is exactly true in a right handed sort of way. Our estimation of reality is like the spectra of an hydrogen atom. The light is real but most of the reality lies outside that light.

[tomndebb]

cladking, how old is humanity? How long did your odd “perfect language” exist? When did it die?

[TriPolar]

@cladking

Computer language isn’t arbitrary.

This statement is absolutely incorrect. It brings into question whether you know what any of those four words mean, along with most of the rest of the words you use.

[Latro]

@TriPolar

This statement is absolutely incorrect. It brings into question whether you know what any of those four words mean, along with most of the rest of the words you use.

He’s slipping. The ancient language is taking him over, soon he wil forget how to communicate with us entirely.

[GIGObuster]

@cladking

Once you understand the ancient language you’ll have insights into exactly how it will be misunderstood by modern language speakers.

This really sounds like the old “ancient Chinese secret” commercial. It is like the launderer that claims to know the ancient secret but we all know that there was none, even the wife knew what it was.

@cladking

I’m not extremely interested in religion and not even all that interested in the pyramids. I’m interested in the pyramids as a means to show what the people who built them were like in reality and to better understand them and myself. This is not a task for a single man. People might see me whipping by but they don’t seem to see the cause; I have a sabre toothed tiger by the tail.

One motivational speaker I saw a year ago in a school told the students that one of the steps needed to be made to be successful is that one has to get together with successful people.

All the ones you have pointed out as claiming to support your ideas (when in reality they support other types of woo woo about the pyramids) are not respected at all among the experts in the field; even the ones studying, debunking pseudo science and eating woo woo proponents for breakfast (that are the closest to what many are in the SDMB) knows the failures that they are.

Giza pyramids

As pointed before, even by you, you do not even have a good idea about how your contraption worked, and real life physics and chemistry are saying “no way” too. Even the tiger you have by the tale is only in your mind.