How will baseball fans respond to Barry Bonds setting the HR record?

In My Humble Opinion
21

Assuming that Barry Bonds did in fact use steroids, he was cheating, even before 2003. Steroids were illegal in baseball for the simple reason that they were illegal (without a doctor’s prescription) in the United States.

Commissioner Fay Vincent reiterated this policy, and highlighted its application to steroids, as early as June 1991:

There was minimal risk of getting caught, since law enforcement paid little attention to steroids and Major League Baseball didn’t do any independent testing. But to use steroids was to cheat, nonetheless.

22

[QUOTE=Crotalus]
I felt the same way as ElvisL1ves, in that I had hoped he would retire before he broke the record(s), but I guess that would have been inconsistent with BB’s towering ego. Oh well. He’ll pass Ruth in career home runs, but I don’t think that anyone who cares about baseball will believe that he will somehow become Ruth’s equal by doing so. Ruth led the league in home runs 12 times in 22 seasons. Aaron did it 4 times in 23 seasons, Bonds has done it twice. Aaron had a great career and passed the greatest home run hitter in career home runs. Bonds has also had a great career and will set some impressive records. What he has done is diminished in my eyes by his near-certain steroid usage. When it’s all over I’ll still consider Ruth’s achievements to be more impressive.
[/QUOTE]

Very nice way to sum it up. I agree completely with what you said. In my mind there will always be an asterisk next to Bonds. If he passes Ruth it is not a big deal, if he passes Aaron I will eagerly root for either A-rod or Pujols to pass him.
In the end Ruth with remain one of the top sports legends of all time. Aaron will remain one of the classiest Sluggers of all times and Bonds will remain a jerk and in the eyes of most a cheat.

Jim

23

Just like in every other era, today’s players played in the conditions of the day. The game has changed in subtle ways every few years. The (enforced) strike zone has grown and shrunk. The height of the pitcher’s mound changed. There was a time when everyone thought the ball was livelier. Sports medicine has vastly improved. Today, it’s unusual for a pitcher to play the whole game, but it used to be routine. Ever since Charlie Lau, batters stand closer to the plate, and some wear armor in case they get hit.

In this era, especially before steroids were against the rules, some players were and are juiced. They’re stronger and faster. Managers keep their scouting reports on laptop computers, and they make strategy decisions based on charts and percentages. The game is still played by humans, but it’s different from the game Hank Aaron played.

I’m certainly no expert, but this stuff is apparent even to a piker like me. The numbers of Barry Bonds’s career will be recorded as they happened, with no asterisks. Future players will break every record he holds. That’s baseball.

24

Can’t speak for all baseball fans, but I have zero problems with Barry Bonds breaking the Babe’s record or any other record. That’s what records are for. Does anyone know all the circumstances around all past records? I doubt it. Many say that hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in professional sports. And Barry Bonds does it better than anyone in the game in the last five years, without dispute. Yeah, Pujols is a great player, but do you see opposing teams walking him intentionally time after time? From travelling around the country, I read a lot of local sports columnists chiming in on this topic. The opinion on Bonds is pretty uniformly negative, and I sense a lot of personal animus against Bonds. He’s not a pleasant person, so the expression “What goes around, comes around” is quite apt here.

25

This seems an appropriate thread to post a semi-relevant question: what about Gaylord Perry? He got into the Hall of Fame by cheating. And there’s no quibbling about “it wasn’t illegal when he did it” or denials; he wrote a book admitting that he threw a spitball. He used methods that are specifically prohibited to gain an advantage over the hitter, and he did it with great success.

So why are people more upset about Barry?

26

[QUOTE=jsc1953]
So why are people more upset about Barry?
[/QUOTE]

Because Barry’s a dick and he plays for the Giants. :smiley:
(Only the second part of that was tongue in cheek.)

27

[QUOTE=jsc1953]
This seems an appropriate thread to post a semi-relevant question: what about Gaylord Perry? He got into the Hall of Fame by cheating. And there’s no quibbling about “it wasn’t illegal when he did it” or denials; he wrote a book admitting that he threw a spitball. He used methods that are specifically prohibited to gain an advantage over the hitter, and he did it with great success.
[/QUOTE]

He didn’t even have to write a book admitting it. He got caught red-handed in 1982(?) and was suspended for a short period. That’s not even to mention his spastic routine he went through before a pitch so he could attempt to conceal the stuff.

28

“With unrelenting hostility and scorn” is the first thing that popped into my head.

29

I imagine a lot of people will respond “yeah, but he was juiced”.

Every player in baseball can hit the ball 3/10 times. Pump enough juice into them and they’d pass Ruth/Aaron’s record, too.

30

[QUOTE=silenus]
Because Barry’s a dick and he plays for the Giants. :smiley:
(Only the second part of that was tongue in cheek.)
[/QUOTE]

Both of those apply to Perry too!

31

[QUOTE=HubZilla]
I imagine a lot of people will respond “yeah, but he was juiced”.
[/quote]

That’s their prerogative.

That’s a load of bull and you know it.

32

[QUOTE=Marley23]
I don’t think he’ll do it, but if he does, I see it as a ‘grit your teeth and try to forget about it’ situation for non-Giants fans. The current player with the best chance to hit 755+ is Alex Rodriguez, but he’s also very unpopular in some circles ('cuz unlike most athletes, he makes a lot of money ;)). Maybe everyone will get behind Albert Pujols or something.
[/QUOTE]

Rodriguez is WAY ahead of any other player in baseball history at the same age:

Home Runs Up To Age 29 Season

A-Rod, 429
Griffey Jr., 398
Foxx, 379
Mantle, 374
Mathews, 370
Aaron, 342
Ott, 342

If Rodriguez stays healthy (as you can tell from the names just below his, that can be a big if) he has a chance to annihilate any record Bonds sets.

Pujols is among the leaders, but not quite at the top, for players up to his age:

Home Runs Up To Age 25 Season

A-Rod, 241
Foxx, 222
Mathews, 222
Ott, 211
Mantle, 207
Frank Robinson, 202
Poo Holes, 201

So he’s certainly an early candidate for big time homer production, though it’s still a lot earlier than with A-Rod.

As to the issue - I don’t think I’ll much react at all. A record is a record; I have to admit I think it would be better for baseball if he didn’t break it, and it’s still not a sure thing he will, but it won’t break my heart either way.

33

How will I respond? I’ll hate it. I loved when Aaron passed Ruth, though I knew it was a lesser achievement. But Aaron is probably my favorite non-Phillie player, and he did it without cheating. Not so Bonds (great post, Freddy). He’s a cheater, and I’d say he’s the biggest asshole in MLB, but he’s probably the biggest anywhere, anytime (even bigger than Hitler!–all right, maybe not).

The home run crown is the crown jewel of baseball records. It’s the BSD (Liar’s Poker reference) of baseball records. Bonds should be ashamed of himself.

34

[QUOTE=AskNott]
Just like in every other era, today’s players played in the conditions of the day. The game has changed in subtle ways every few years. The (enforced) strike zone has grown and shrunk. The height of the pitcher’s mound changed. There was a time when everyone thought the ball was livelier. Sports medicine has vastly improved. Today, it’s unusual for a pitcher to play the whole game, but it used to be routine. Ever since Charlie Lau, batters stand closer to the plate, and some wear armor in case they get hit.

In this era, especially before steroids were against the rules, some players were and are juiced. They’re stronger and faster. Managers keep their scouting reports on laptop computers, and they make strategy decisions based on charts and percentages. The game is still played by humans, but it’s different from the game Hank Aaron played.

I’m certainly no expert, but this stuff is apparent even to a piker like me. The numbers of Barry Bonds’s career will be recorded as they happened, with no asterisks. Future players will break every record he holds. That’s baseball.
[/QUOTE]

This pretty much sums up what I think. Statistics are good for comparing the achievements of contemporaries (and in all honesty, Bonds has few contemporaries, juiced or otherwise, who can compare), but records ultimtely have limited meaning.

35

[QUOTE=jsc1953]
This seems an appropriate thread to post a semi-relevant question: what about Gaylord Perry? He got into the Hall of Fame by cheating. And there’s no quibbling about “it wasn’t illegal when he did it” or denials; he wrote a book admitting that he threw a spitball. He used methods that are specifically prohibited to gain an advantage over the hitter, and he did it with great success.

So why are people more upset about Barry?
[/QUOTE]

Good question. Steroids seem to have become the Great Evil of our times. Never mind that Ruth used illegal substances. Never mind that Ruth once injected himself extract from a sheep’s testes in order to gain an edge. Never mind that Aaron may have used amphetamines. Bonds may have used steroids!!! OMFG! Athletes today use surgery to gain an advantage, no one is looking to crucify them.

[QUOTE=HubZilla]
I imagine a lot of people will respond “yeah, but he was juiced”.

Every player in baseball can hit the ball 3/10 times. Pump enough juice into them and they’d pass Ruth/Aaron’s record, too.
[/QUOTE]

Bullshit.

I think it would be somewhat insulting to Aaron to make a huge deal of Bonds passing Ruth. He is the record holder. Ruth, of course, was a much greater player than both of them.

36

[QUOTE=Yookeroo]
Good question. Steroids seem to have become the Great Evil of our times. Never mind that Ruth used illegal substances.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, gin was an illegal substance for much of the Babe’s career- but I’ve yet to hear anyone explain how booze is a performance enhancing drug.

37

[QUOTE=astorian]
Yeah, gin was an illegal substance for much of the Babe’s career- but I’ve yet to hear anyone explain how booze is a performance enhancing drug.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe by “illegal substance,” he meant ‘hookers?’
I didn’t know injury-fixing surgery was illegal either. Baseball has a history of cheating that may be second only to boxing among pro sports, but I don’t think we have to overlook what Bonds has done.

Bonds’ cheating (and Sosa’s, McGwire’s, Canseco’s, Caminiti’s, blah blah blah) was ignored by baseball, and in that sense, having Bonds take on these records is the MLB getting its just desserts. But the MLB also deserves anger from fans for having compromised its own history - and baseball’s history is what separates it from the other major pro sports.

38

[QUOTE=Marley23]
Bonds’ cheating (and Sosa’s, McGwire’s, Canseco’s, Caminiti’s, blah blah blah) was ignored by baseball, and in that sense, having Bonds take on these records is the MLB getting its just desserts. But the MLB also deserves anger from fans for having compromised its own history - and baseball’s history is what separates it from the other major pro sports.
[/QUOTE]

Baseball is the only major pro sport to have a team take a dive for the championship. Baseball is the only major pro sport to have a person die on the field. Baseball is the only major pro sport that has the capability to mess with the outcome simply by changing the equipment/field/uniform regulations.

Baseball has had its history compromised from within and from without from day one. This “holy, sacred game” stuff is baloney.

39

[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF]
Baseball has had its history compromised from within and from without from day one. This “holy, sacred game” stuff is baloney.
[/QUOTE]

Which I acknowledged in the previous sentence, when I said “Baseball has a history of cheating that may be second only to boxing among pro sports.” Baseball’s history is obviously not sacred, and that isn’t what I was saying. I was saying that history is more important to baseball than it is to the other sports. There is simply more history, for one thing, and rightly or wrongly - wrongly, I guess - that history carries more weight in baseball.

40

**Concerning Gaylord Perry and the Doctoring of baseballs: **
Most baseballs fans consider the ability to Hide the fact you can Doctor a baseball to be a skill. It is cheating, but cheating within the spirit of the game.
Caulking bats has never been treated as a high crime by most fans or the league. If you get caught, you pay the price (a relatively small price).

Many retired players claim that MLB cannot maintain a 162 game schedule without the use of Bennies. I don’t think this is true, but they allow players to play the game at a consistent level as opposed to a Suped up level and have thus been largely glossed over since at least the 50’s.

The use of Alcohol during prohibition being compared to steroids is a joke I hope. This is not the same thing as Steroid or even Bennie use.

Yookeroo: Can you possibly cite the “Ruth once injected himself extract from a sheep’s testes in order to gain an edge”? This is quite a claim if just rumor.

BTW: Besides juice the other huge advantage players have today that they did not have in the past is Custom Corrective Eye surgery. This is far more important change than most people seem to realize. One of the great attributes Ted Williams possessed was better than 20/20 vision. Now many players have had successful surgery to better than 20/20 vision. I would love to know how many and see a chart of Batting Average and OBA before and after. This is legal and approved, but a huge difference when comparing players of different eras.

Jim