Well, we did get seats down the third-base line for the second game of the season in San Diego with the express intent of booing Bonds every chance we got. We did, too. But we stayed through the bitter end. Cold and windy it was, too.
I’m not arguing with you on that. What I said was “major pro sport”, which is generally understood to be the big three: football, baseball, and basketball. And since we’re talking about pro sports, I didn’t feel it necessary to go into the amateur ranks to find examples.
At the time, we didn’t know he was juiced. The stuff he talked about was “dietary supplements”, which were legal at the time. Now we know better, at least since his Senate hearing appearance effectively confirmed it, and McGwire is in oblivion instead. You’ll never see his statue next to Musial’s, and he’s a longshot for the HOF now, too.
I do think that’s the biggest single reason, other than that he’s still playing and still a threat to a hallowed record. If he’d at least have the sense to keep his yap shut when not mouthing player-interview cliches, like McGwire did, he would be ignored like McGwire is instead of hated.
He’s made that claim himself, but absolutely nobody else is buying it. It’s just part of his being a *hole.
One opinion I’ve heard and can’t argue with is this: Babe Ruth was the greatest player of the Caucasian Leagues. Barry Bonds is the greatest player of the Steroid Leagues. But Willie Mays was the greatest player of all time.
Chew on that.
I still give the edge to Ruth. He was also on his way to HOF status as a lefty pitcher before he became “The Bambino”. But I would take Mays second.
In Mays’ favor, he did play against the Top US athletes of his time. Ruth obviously did not. In Ruth’s favor, all the best white athletes gravitate to baseball in his time as that was the only place to make any real money. By the 60’s many of the best Athletes were heading to Football and by the 60’s Football and Basketball were both depleting the baseball pool. Mays also played over half his career in the expansion era. So you can always make an argument to support your position. That Mays was the Best Player from 1935 to 1990 seems like a safe bet however.
Jim
I’m aware. I was wondering what evidence, if any, shows that hookers enhance performance. On the baseball field, I mean.
I don’t think this is very complicated: both can be called performance-enhancing, but the steroids are illegal and the surgery isn’t. These surgeries have also never been against the rules of the game, as far as I know, and thus I wouldn’t call them cheating or unfair advantages. Steroids, on the other hand, are and were against the rules.
I highly doubt that any athlete has ever elected to have surgery solely to enhance performance; it’s always to repair damage, and get performance back to where it was before an injury.
We didn’t? I sure did, and in the words of Lewis Black, I was just sittin’ on my fuckin’ couch. If we couldn’t be sure McGwire was juiced, what makes us so sure Bonds is?
I’m not proud of Bonds’ steroid use, but I think it’s comically disingenuous to hail McGwire and damn Bonds for doing the exact same thing.
Mmm… tastes like meaningless.
LASIK is the surgery of choice for enhancement. ESPN ran some stories on how players from all sports were going to get LASIK and it was allowing them to see much better. When the ball is coming your way at 100 MPH, every little bit counts.
Dammit man, stop making me argue with you and then four hours later supplying an excellent point that I have to agree with. It screws with my brain. 
Lasix is so far afield from the debate over juicing that it is not even funny. How many millions of folks have had this done in the last 10-15 years? It’s not a boutique surgical treatment specifically designed to make you a finer or more superior athlete. It’s eyesight for god’s sake. Any given athlete in any given sport may or may not have eyesight that deteriorates sooner than any other average joe on the street.
I can’t see that Lasix has a place at the table. ( pardon the pun. 
)
Lasix is very relevant to the juicing discussion because it is a banned substance.
Perhaps you meant LASIK? 
In the ultra competitive arena of pro sports, I firmly believe it is only illegal if you get caught.
My reaction to Bonds and McGwire is exactly the same: They are cheaters. As such, I really am not all that impressed with the records they set. Can I prove it? Nope… which means their records stand. As with any cheater, there is a risk involved and as such there may be consequences to getting caught. In the case of Bonds, I hope it means his stats are stripped from baseball. Obviously McGwire, Perry and hundreds of others before them got away with it and more power to them.
So, Bonds and McGwire:
Both cheated
Without proof
and therefore have not been caught
Yet, only Bonds’ records are stripped?
–twitch twitch-- Am I allowed to laugh and say “fuck you” even if we’re not in the Pit?
I’ve got a Lasix story for you, bub. A lot of years ago, I got hired to shoot a job. We the crew and amusing and intelligent Producer/Director flew to Chicago. We interviewed various citizens who had been a part of the main study for a new drug. It was an acid-pump inhibitor drug. That is to say, it didn’t absorb stomach acid as much as it stopped the body from releasing too much. We were shooting this job, because the pharmaceutical company had given this drug a name.
They named it Losec. No offense to any Dr. types on the Boards, but as a rule, it’s frequently difficult to read a Dr’s handwriting on a scrip. The drug was approved by the F.D.A., and launched. Within a few weeks, patients were in an uproar. The complaint was the same:
Yep. The Pharmacists were reading “Lasix” instead of “Losec”. The video I shot was basically a ton of testemonials of folks saying the same thing- " I don’t care what you call it, just don’t take it away from me". The video was edited and finished and presented to the F.D.A. in a request for a fast-track name alteration. The F.D.A., in a rare display of administrative intelligence, granted the name change in record time.
Now, you can go and purchase Prilosec over the counter, but back when, it was a prescription drug- never again to be confused with Lasix. True story.
And, might I add, only confused with Lasik by a very miniscule percentage of the population.
Absolutely. His record in three years as a full time starter was 65-33, and had the Cy Young award existed in 1916, he would have won it. The first year he set a season record for home runs (29 in 1919) he also went 9-5 as a pitcher!
Ruth was definitely the best baseball player of all time. A case can be made that others were better hitters, better fielders, better pitchers, but for all-around capability and excellence, there is nobody who compares.
Speaking of Lasix, boxer Ricardo Mayorga was caught with it in his system after he lost to Oscar De La Hoya last week.
We pretty much all, like you, strongly suspected it.
His own BALCO grand jury testimony (“the cream” and “the clear”, remember?). His skull growth, for another.
Just an attempt to cleanse the palate.
Agree completely. Babe was a dominating pitcher, then arguably the greatest offensive (no double entendre intended) player ever. That combination alone makes him the greatest ever, IMO. Add to that the lore, the hoopla, the mythology associated with the Babe, and he’s flat out the biggest thing ever in baseball.
Bonds can do whatever he wants to, but he’ll never be the Babe. I think he knows it and it pisses him off. That’s why he’s been so snippy about Ruth in certain interviews. As stated here:
Two links on Ruth that went up this week on Yankees.com
HOF president discusses Ruth, Aaron This one is worth reading.
I love this part the best. It sums up the difference between Ruth & Bonds better than anything I could write.
Jim