This is not necessarily a debate, but it does deal with an aspect of religion, so this forum seemed appropriate.
I am assuming that perhaps there are ideas other than Dante’s about what heaven will be like. I would think many people have formed their own expectations about it.
I’m having trouble with this myself. Does anyone think it will be a corporeal experience similar to our experience on Earth? That is, our bodies will be recreated physically in some alternate plane, and we will see our earthly friends and relatives. We will eat food and have only pleasureable physical and spiritual experiences.
Will it be a non-physical mental experience such that our minds will be detached from our bodies and we see images of other people and communicate mentally?
Will it be a purely spiritual experience in which we encounter each other in some way beyond what we know on Earth – not really “seeing” or “hearing”?
Will we not encounter other “people”, but only experience the presence of God?
I also consider the possibility that there is no heaven or afterlife, and all forms of experience end at the moment of our death.
I think I understand what no afterlife would be like, so you don’t need to reply if that’s what you think will happen. But I am interested how those who believe there will be an afterlife think that we will experience it.
My personal belief is that it will be all spiritual. Christ valued the spiritual over all other. Having any body form would not work since then you have to deal with how old we would be, would some of us still be attractive and some unattractive and not see the true us? Would say as an example, a person eats a lot to get away from some aspect of life, would they still have to be reminded of this earthly desire they had? Obviously my point is that bodily form wouldnt work. I also believe that all people will come together as one as we were designed to be.
In Catholic theology, the body and soul are inextricably linked, neither existing without the other. This is not to say that the earthly body doesn’t die and rot, but that there is some bodily form linked to the soul. A glorified body of some sort. This is because the earthly experience of your body is a part of who you are, your essence, your soul. This is why cremation is allowed by the Church only if doing it is not a renunication of the idea of the resurrection of the body.
I have to admit I was disconcerted by the idea of continuing to have a body in the afterlife; I was planning on shucking this hideousness and floating about as a beautiful soul. But I’m sure it will all work out fine, and my body in this life has impacted my soul.
Anyway, the afterlife to me will be just like one of those flashes we sometimes have an earth, that everything is just fine and I AM SO HAPPY right now. Only forever, and it won’t get boring.
My main reasons for the way I feel come from Christ who represents the truth, and my own personal experiences. I in no way claim to have a better answer. It’s simply what I feel is the best answer I currently have.
I think you misunderstood my question. I am asking what you base your impression of heaven on…the awareness, the memories, etc. You can’t have experienced heaven yet. I’m wondering why you feel it would be as you say, and not a disembodied experience with no memory of your life on Earth.
I believe that we will have bodies similar to our earthly bodies, but we will not be capable of illness, aging, or death. I believe that we will recognize those that we knew on earth. I also believe that we will have a perfect mind
I base my beliefs on the passages in the Bible that discuss Jesus Christ’s resurrected body. Some things that the Bible says.
[li]He could eat food[/li][li]He had a body that could be felt and touched[/li][li]He could appear/disappear at will and travel great distances instantaneously[/li][li]He could ascend to heaven[/li][/ul]
The Bible also says that when Jesus returns, Christians “will be like him”. Thus, I believe that we will have bodies like Jesus’ resurrected body. I also believe we will be able to recognize and interact with each other, and we will experience the joy of the presence of the Lord throughout all eternity.
How do you know that Jesus felt that way? Also, if you are not Jesus then why are you trying to experience HIS afterlife? What about your own? He has his own experiences that determine what is right for him. Who’s to say what is right for him is right for you?
I am not asking you not to trust in Jesus, only to evaluate what is your own belief that Jesus wanted, and what Jesus actually wanted, whether there’s a difference, and whether or not it matters.
I believe in a heaven that is sort of like multiple planes going off into infinity. Heaven is whichever one is right for you at the time, and Hell depends on how far you are off from that which is the right place for you to be at that time. If you are in the right place and right time now, then you are already in Heaven. Heaven to me is the correct alignment of perception, where your wants and desires are aligned with what you actually need, and the ability to fulfill those needs with what you have at hand, and the knowledge that you can do so.
As far as alternate planes of existance, I think that anything we can imagine, exists.
Correct me if im wrong, but he was asking for an opinion. Noone knows is the obvious answer. If you are looking for a tell all clear answer you will not get one. My basis on heaven is when I feel closest to God and the truth and project that onto what I think heaven will be like. Most of my purpose comes from Christ so obviously that would be partly from the bible.
Ok, I am perfectly willing to accept your opinion on Heaven, I was only challenging you in that I sincerely wanted to know the answers to my questions, not because I think your idea of heaven lacks merit. I was only asking in what particular way you came to the conclusion that Jesus prefers the spiritual. Jesus seemed to me to favor the Heart, which is the Earth, that he wanted to bring humanity back toward paradise, but not only a spiritual one. The heart is in the center of the body, merging all of the areas of the body, from the crown down to the toes, it handles the flow of energy to your entire body, which to me implies a sense of unity between the upper and lower, rather than a preference for the upper. I also feel that for some reason the story of Jesus as a person who drank and fucked leaves out that lower half, which is why you have people like Mary Magdalene downplayed in the bible itself, and thus is missing a certain aspect of that unity.
I was actually curious as to what makes you think that he prefers the spiritual, because it is something I have been unable to truly comprehend, and maybe you can help me to understand why someone would see it that way.
But in the Bible Jesus’ body was gone from the tomb and never found. He could have been using the same body. Other people’s bodies or remains can be dug up and examined years and millennia later. We would have to have a second body created; this seems unlikely to me.
Well, I believe that Jesus was using the same body, but his earthly body was ‘translated’ (for lack of a better word) and became a heavenly body. I believe that this is the ultimate fate for all those who accept Christ. The Bible says that when Jesus returns,
I believe the dead in Christ (or those who died but their souls went to heaven) will be reunited with their bodies, and their bodies will be translated into a heavenly, perfected form. The dead have to rise from somewhere, so the only thing that could be rising would be their bodies. Then the living ones who are ‘in Christ’ shall be caught up and translated into heavenly, perfected bodies.
You are correct that we can dig up the bodies of dead Christians, but that is because their resurrection has not yet occurred. Jesus is the only person that has been resurrected (although Enoch and Elijah were both translated and were taken to heaven without dying).
Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. I think there may be others worlds or dimensions where we continue to grow but the level of learning us higher. Kinda like grade school. Once you learn the stuff in second grade you’d be bored to keep going over it. You build on it as you learn more. There is a mention in 2 Corinthians
There’s also this mystery from 1 Corintians
IMHO Heaven will be the awakening of or the realization of unity with God and our fellow man. Barriers fall down and we have a clarity of understanding. A sense of peace, love and acceptance will come with that understanding.
Will we have bodies? Not in the sense we have them now. I think we can have a body if we choose but they won’t be limited as we see them now. I believe in reincarnation so I don’t think the body we have in this life is a keeper.
Will we know each other, and/or be with our loved ones? When we have a sense of unity I don’t think that will matter the way it does now. There won’t really be strangers like there are now. I believe we will have a sense of having shared certain experiences with others.
“Hey remember that lifetime we were married?”
“Yeah!! wild ride that time. How about that time we were best friends and neighbors?”
“Oh yeah!! Good times!!”
I wonder about boredom. If it’s all spiritual bliss without activity or purpose that sounds kinda dull. Perhaps we help others develop and take on the role of teachers. Perhaps we become guardian angels.
I think that the body is not nearly as limited as many of us perceive it to be. One must remember that every time one moves their body they are controlling the flight of atoms through space, that’s a pretty amazing power when you get right down to it. So if our consciousness can move atoms by a force of will, then what is this body of ours capable of as we learn to use it properly?
Believeing in reincarnation as I do means we’ve had different physical bodies in different lives. The physical body seems to me to be like my favorite flannel shirt. I’m very very fond of it but when it’s time I bid it farewell and get a new one.
I call this the flannel shirt metaphysical theory.