I can’t agree with that. Even the humblest guest is still making travel plans, giving gifts, etc. and should be treated with the appropriate respect (i.e., not being lied to.) If adult people decide to get legally married a certain way, why not just proudly own their decision?
I’m not looking for a fight.
You’re not being a bother. It is a bit of both, and always in the context of him telling us about his plans of the moment. He doesn’t pay any more attention to the solicited advice than he does to the unsolicited. I suppose I should stop trying.
Sorry, I didn’t mean you.
Yes, but if you (and the officiant and the witnesses ) signed the certificate after the ceremony, then the ceremony in the church was the state sanctioned event. The certificate signing is just the documentation.
Because it’s really not relevant, IMO. Obviously we disagree on this. The wedding ceremony that they had was where they publicly proclaimed their commitment to each other asked their friends and family for support. They shared this day with them because that’s what you do in a wedding.
There can be many reasons for not sharing that information with the world. My sister had always been planning their wedding for the fall but due to the way the visa was granted they needed to get married quickly in the early summer for her husband to stay in the country. They didn’t consider that to be a major thing, just something they needed to do but in the eyes of the law they were married. They didn’t feel the need to share that fact with the world, it didn’t change anything or affect their plans otherwise. Other folks may not want to upset religious parents who may disapprove, or they need to do so for medical benefits, or any number of other reasons. They don’t owe their friends and family a full explanation of all that if they feel it’s not anyone else’s business.
Would you change your mind about attending a friend’s public wedding if you found out they were married already for other reasons?
I guess you meant me. His mother and I were hurt that he got married last October and didn’t tell us, and if fact had dozens of conversations with us that were based on the premise that he was not married. As I have said repeatedly, we would have attended had we known the truth. We were hurt to learn that he chose not to tell us the truth. That’s all. I have no desire to fight.
I don’t see how that makes any difference to anyone involved. My point is, none of that ceremony is actually necessary anyway. Most of it isn’t required by the state. Ditto the reception. For most people, the important part of the ceremony is that they are sharing it with the people they care about the most. This is why lots of gay couples had weddings long before they were able to be legally married.
Multiple paragraphs in the OP that had no relevance to the wedding story, other than to paint your son-in-law in a bad light, say otherwise. Seriously, what was that about?
It was an attempt to give some background, mainly to try to make the attitudes of his brothers and father make any sense at all. I guess I didn’t do that very well.
Fair enough.
I may be wrong, all I know about you is what you wrote in your OP. But it really does look to me like this is only marginally about the wedding.
FWIW my dog in this fight is I got married a year and a half ago for the need of health insurance, and with any luck we will our wedding celebration next year (mostly because friends and family keep asking us to finally throw a party). I strongly resent what we will consider our “real” wedding is “fake,” “dress up,” “a sham,” or a “gift grab.”
It seems like your family and friends know you are married and are asking you to throw a party. Very different from the OP who kept it secret - perhaps because he knew some people wouldn’t have attended.
Although I have to ask, what do you mean by considering that to be your real wedding? Do you consider yourself unmarried now? Are you going to count your anniversaries from the date of the party not the ceremony? It probably sounds sarcastic, although I don’t mean it to be , but I don’t understand how you wouldn’t consider the first public committment ( and having a legal ceremony is public even if family and friends aren’t there) the real" wedding.
That’s pretty common in this forum. A lot of armchair analysts around here.
Really? I’ve never heard of this. I’ve been to any number of weddings and I’ve never had any expectation that the legal aspects were taken care of on the same day or even the same month. My sister was legally married months before her giant Catholic wedding. She didn’t lie about it, unlike PS, but she didn’t make a big deal of it, either (and I didn’t find out until days later). The celebration was as real a wedding as anything.
Eh, but neither have you (I assume) been telling your friends and family that you are not married yet.
Even more, you haven’t been failing to inform your loved ones that you’re already married while you’re soliciting their assistance in the planning (and funding) of the wedding celebration (again, I’m assuming here).
It’s these two pieces of behavior that make me put Prodigal firmly in the wrong on this one.
If my brother had run off and gotten married without mentioning it to me, I would be very hurt and really rather upset with him because he didn’t tell me about it. If he’d run off and gotten married and then spent almost a year talking about getting married in the future and asking for my help with the planning/funding/whatever, I would be several steps beyond hurt and upset. I think I’d be all the way to “incendiary rage”, frankly.
Okay, I’ve read this whole thread (well, at least the first 64 posts; there were only 64 when I started writing this).
My sociology background is in collective behavior, education, religion and pretty abstract stuff. This thread, however, is very clearly a matter of symbolic interaction – which I only paid partial attention to in college so my interpretations below could be missing the target:
The symbolic interaction perspective essentially says that humans perceive certain actions/words/behaviors to be symbolic or representative of larger, deeper issues. For instance, the fact that Politician ____ decided to follow policy X is not just something I dislike; it’s yet another example [i.e. it is symbolic] of why he was never fit to be in office, regardless of what the voters did or didn’t do on election night. Basically, it’s a form of hasty generalization that may or may not be accurate. There’s a lot more to it and it’s usually a lot more subtle, but I hope that will be enough to start with and turn our attention back to this thread.
It’s not about the marriage date or the wedding date. The real issue is buried beneath the deception and the reveal (regardless of PS’ sobriety at the time): Is this how Prodigal treats his parents? I/We have tried repeatedly to guide him toward pursuit of his best interests, yet our advice goes largely ignored. I/We have spent lots of money to help him, particularly when he has been in dire need – or at least stated such was the case, and this latest vignette seems to have been a big scam for over a year. Is that symbolic of P’s ethics and behavior?
That’s the key question and the reason you’ve come to the SDMB to share your story. That’s also not a question for any of us to answer, although we are always willing to speculate, incorrectly or correctly, because that’s what we like to do around here. [It’s more fun than lube-smithying.] The only one who can answer that question is P.
And, ultimately, the answer is irrelevant. The real issue is “What’s Dad gonna do about this?” Because Dad feels like he’s been scammed and he’s not sure if he’s been getting scammed for years or if this latest incident is something new. And, more importantly, Dad doesn’t know if P will scam him in the future or what he can/should/could do to keep from getting scammed (by P) again. And, with those uncertainties, he’s not sure whether he’d believe P’s answer to the key question(s).
There have already been some suggestions along those lines and you’ve noted that you’re already considering them. I’ll just pitch my own fifty-cents in and say you are not looking at a binary decision; there are many degrees between shutting the door and leaving it wide open.
—G!
Scott: There’s an old, old saying on earth, Mr. Sulu: “Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.”
Chekov: I know this saying. It was invented in Russia.
[STAR TREK: Friday’s Child]
Obviously, he doesn’t think of the official ceremony as his wedding. Why on earth does anyone give a damn about this? The celebration was exactly as advertised, and the OP payed for part of the reception, not the service. He wanted a wedding, invited people to a wedding, was in a wedding, and the friends and family attended a wedding.
His mistake was in thinking that his brothers and father aren’t complete shitheels, who would recognize that the wedding they attended is the only one that matters to every single person involved.
He didn’t “run off and get married”. He made it official in the eyes of the state prior to the real wedding, because his hand was forced by some beurocratic bullshit.
It was a show put on for the bride to get her “special day”, like every single other wedding ever.
Pretty much.
That’s a more cynical view than I would take, but my wedding was one of the Top 5 best days of my life.
This seems the clear point.
Crotalus - near as I can tell, you are getting busted for your context. You thought that sharing what had played out might clarify how he came to not discussing the wedding - instead, some folks are reading that you are projecting your own standards on someone who’s trying to do their own thing.
Grestarian - …what?