Touché.
Sam Stone, you stated the situation beautifully. It is surprising that there is a not insignificant minority who are failing to see the significance of the threat we are facing.
At least 1/5 of the total number of americans who died in vietnam were wiped out in a single day. There is no clean, comfy solution to this problem.
The sooner people realize the enormity of the threat (well, it’s not just a threat anymore, it’s a reality), and the cost of eliminating it, the better.
I hate to point this out, but the hijackers were on a suicide mission. Exactly what makes you think that killing them and the civilians near them is going to make any difference?
Oh, and ** Venkman **, if you read the second book in the Ender’s Game trilogy, it turns out that the alien race that was wiped out was, in fact, a peaceful and good race that was in a big miscommunication. As far as I remember. (I’m not saying that’s the case here. Just that it’s a bad example.)
Oops. I realize I was being somewhat unclear. Obvioulsy, I meant the terrorists helping the suicide bombers are also going to have a very similar mindset regarding “dying for the cause.”
I like ** Esprix’s ** answer best. By far.
Yep. That’ll do it, all right. Summarily execute Bin Laden, and everything will be okey-dokey.
Now he will become a martyr for his cause, and thousands? Tens of thousands? will flock to the cause, and we will never have peace again.
If we make the retribution and reprisals severe enough, they will NOT attack us any more. Mothers that are so scared, they will turn in their own sons that are part of a terrorist organization, just so their towns and families won’t be retaliated against.
From a Heinlein novel:
O
I’ve heard a lot of people state that we need to make sure more innocents are not killed when we retaliate. I would agree, but I’m not sure “civilian” automatically indicates “innocent” in cases like this. Innocence can be very hard to define.
As justification for attacks on Americans (and other people in the world), some terrorists have stated that there is no difference between the government and its people, so everyone is fair game. To a degree, I think they’re right. By living in America, I’m supporting the policies of the American government to some extent. If I don’t agree with the policies, I need to either accept them, do my best to change them, or leave. If a policy is evil, acceptance should be out of the question. For instance, if America decided to declare war on the Bahamas because it wanted the land for tourist revenue - I’d either be a part of the revolt that took back the government from the obvious idiots that made that decision, or I would move to someplace else. If I remained in a country like that, I would be supporting a stupid war by default.
In countries that regularly partake in terrorist actions or harbor terrorists, or celebrate terrorism, I believe the citizens are not completely “innocent”. Their support of their government, or failure to overthrow it in the name of common human decency, indicates an acceptance, if not approval, of the terrorist actions. Is that innocent? Apathy, or turning a blind eye may not make one a direct participant in an evil action, but it does not leave one entirely clean either. (Just for the record, I think plenty of us in America and the rest of the world are occasionally guilty of similar types of apathy).
I realize that we are lucky in this country to have the freedom to speak our minds, lobby for changes, and leave if we wish. Some people don’t have those privileges, and overthrowing their governments won’t be easy either. However, now would be a good time for them to ask for help with that task. I don’t want to see us kill innocents either, and would be much more in favor of helping an oppressed but peace-loving people get out from under the yoke of tyranny. I’m just not convinced the majority of residents of terrorist nations are peace-loving people. I hope they prove me wrong. Otherwise, they are supporters of terror, and part of the problem. I’d love for all of us to get along, and I hold nothing against any good person who loves peace and freedom – but those who do not play well with others need to be dealt with.
As far as what I would like to see: I won’t be happy if we retaliate for this action and then stop. As a matter of fact, I don’t even want to use the word “retaliate”. That indicates an angry lashing out. I want to see us (and every other country) commit to totally decimating known terrorist organizations and their supporters throughout the world for the betterment of all society in the future. And I want to see them follow through with that commitment - hitting fast and HARD. That includes the organization that just attacked New York and DC, the terrorist activity from both sides in Northern Ireland, and every other terrorist cell on Earth. The nations of this world (and their citizens) need to stand together and send a message, not that terrorism will be costly, but that it simply will not be accepted, and that it will be fought by every good person on this Earth, wherever it is found.
Mark Gross
Registered in October of last year, and that was your fifth post? Do you save it all up? 
O
True, but I was thinking more of the overall philosophy behind the approach. If it helps, think of Stilson or Bonzo instead of the buggers - the only way for Ender to feel safe was to completely destroy them and do it in a way that was so thourough it would intimidate potential enemies. I was also thinking of the pain this approach ultimately caused Ender and wondering if we as a nation could endure the consequences of such an action.
Now is the call to seperate…
how many of you are in the nation of America
and how many of you are in the nation of God?
Jesus is the king, here is what he has to say:
Luke 6:27-49
27 "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
29 If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.
30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ love those who love them.
33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ do that.
34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full.
35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
39 He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?
40 A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.
41 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
44 Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
45 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.
46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
47 I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice.
48 He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.
49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”
(NIV)
Thank you for your sentiment, peewee. But witnessing is in GD.
I donnot see how this is whitnessing…
I challenge everybody right now… to start forgiving, and start giving for no reason…
lend without asking it for return… if someone punches you, open up for another punch
If somebody steals your coat… give them your shirt
Forgiveness is not only good, but necesary!
Listen to me because I would not lie under such grave circumstances… These terrorists have attacked to make you mad… and they have won… they have achieved thier goal…
now if you now not retailiat like they want… you have not only taken away thier victory, but now you have destroyed thier efforts…
If a bully punches you, and then you ask for another… will the bully get what he wanted? No he will not! The bully has helped you instead of hindering you!
The terrorists are asking us to start WW3!! I say we give them eternal life!
An enemy cannot be destroyed unless you either make them your friend, or become an enemy yourself!
Again, I am not lieing to you. Evil makes evil and good makes good.
If you murder others becasue they murder you, you have justified their act!
You are blinded with hatred, and even before you were blinded with false security…
I will not be lieing when I say that you cannot punish them. Their punishment will come at the end of time.
Humans are capible of only destruction. So do not add to the destruction, but stop it from comming. you cannot save someone from falling off a cliff by throwing off another. Also, You cannot stop a falling building by destroying another. In the same way you cannot stop death by creating more.
You fools in your vengful eyes will see about your own destruction! Noone will be safe from the calamity you bring apon yourselves, so now I beg that you reconsider your destructive ways, and join me in stopping more destruction.
Since we’re looking for the best scenerio, I think it would be great if everyone involved got a pang of regret and turned themselves in. Otherwise, I hope we go after them all Tom Clancy style, while they’re asleep, hopefully next to goats wearing women’s panties.