I’m beginning to think that the Constitution needs to be re-written to eliminate the Executive branch altogether. When the Framers wrote the Constitution, their fear was the influence of popular power, which is still a valid concern today. But the presidency seems to compete with the Executive, and it just doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to have the public vote on someone every four years who competes with another body of branch of government that’s voted on every two years. Yes, I know it’s Mitch McConnell’s Senate who’s doing the obstructing, but I think that if we were to do away with presidential elections, the American people would take those congressional races a lot more seriously.
Back to Schultz, my theory is he probably wouldn’t have run had it not been for the recent successes of Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but the billionaire class is frightened by their rise in popularity, and if they have to undercut Democrats, even at the risk of Trump’s re-election, they’ll gladly do it. If Schultz doesn’t do it, another billionaire - Mark Cuban, maybe - probably will. The billionaire class is going to fight tax increases tooth and nail, and if they lose influence in the Democratic party, then they’ll simply find a way to weaken them.
I had never heard of Howard Schultz. Sounds to me like just another vanity run by someone who needs his ego stroked. Democrats in 2020 are not going to vote 3rd party, we know the importance of this election and are not about to split the electorate for someone’s ego trip.
I don’t worry about Democrats; I worry about those clueless voters we call independents, who believe both parties suck equally and that independent businessmen like Schultz would make political partisanship magically disappear. The reality, however, is that a strong independent would make razor sharp political divisions even sharper and encourage extreme tactics such as obstructionism by the right. It would also probably encourage the left to go even harder left. Multi-polar, multi-party politics almost always makes divisions and politics nastier, not better. It’s better to have one party act as a clear representative of popular will, with an opposition party that is a clear minority but still strong enough to force the majority part to compete.
Don’t forget Ross Perot was leading in polls in 92 before he imploded. I don’t think Schultz has the kind of problems Perot had so he could do even better than Perot. Anyone running is based on having a big ego.
Seems to me like he has substantially different problems than Perot had, starting with lack of a constituency. I don’t think anyone is clamoring for a candidate who’s running on a cuts-to-Medicare-and-Medicaid to reduce the deficit platform outside of a couple of op-ed writers at large newspapers. I mean, liberals don’t want that and the conservatives who do want that don’t like to advertise it. It seems like basically all of his positions are calculated not to excite anybody, really. Say what you like about Trump (and I do, in four letter words at excessive length frequently) but he fires up his base and as a consequence has fired up people who hate him into opposing him. 2020 is not going to feature mousy centrists one way or another.
people are assuming he’s only going to pull away from the Dem candidate. Going back to Perot the polls showed he pulled equally from both candidates. Perot had positions that appealed to both, for example he was pro choice but was more conservative on fiscal issues.
The fact that he’s thinking of running as an independent already shows that he’s not qualified.
There are not millions of so-called independent voters out there just looking for a savior from the two party system. I have a family member who calls herself independent. She likes to think she weighs the pros and cons of each candidate. Funny how she always ends up pushing the R button. One night, after a few too many glasses of wine I actually snapped and said, ‘You’re a Republican, the last time you probably voted for a Democrat was JFK!’
There are also so-called independents who simply don’t vote because they simply don’t understand or care about politics. No magical unicorn with a latte is going to get them to vote.
You don’t have to like the two party system and I understand it’s easier to whine about it than doing the unbelievably hard work of changing the constitution. But, the Republicans and Democrats are not ideologically rigid, Trump was certainly out of step with the Republicans on many issues.
Yeah, remember when Trump was running on the platform of giving great, cheap healthcare to everybody? Obviously that was a huge lie, but I think that the “independent” fusion platform that would actually resonate would be a combination of hippie-punching and taxing the bejeezus out of billionaires to provide medical insurance to red-blooded Americans - our current party alignment will only get you one of these.
But Schultz is proposing the exact inverse of this, thereby pleasing nobody.
some people are so focused on getting rid of Trump that anything that might make him win is seen as a really bad thing. I just saw Nate Silver tweet that the party that attacks the 3rd party guy ends us losing voters based on the past history with 3rd party candidates.
…Yeah. All other things being equal, something that makes Trump more likely to win is a bad thing, because Trump is a terrible president. And while certain things (economic upswings, for example) are good on net despite improving his chances, having a billionaire run as a third-party candidate (and probably lose) is a no-brainer bad thing - it’s not good in its own right and it improves Trump’s chances.
That changes the calculus completely. In that case, it’s a “moderate” challenging Trump in the republican field - there’s no way he can hurt the dems that way, and he may very well hurt Trump quite a bit in doing so.
Nearly everything, to the point where this question seems hard to take seriously. Can you name any similarities that go beyond “person is running as an independent”?
if Trump is so awful the Dems should be able to beat him even with a 3rd party in the race. If Trump wins again, the Dems should just disband for being such a pitiful party.
