I am the director of an academic lab. In the past 3 years, I have interviewed the same woman for three different positions. For the first position, there was another candidate with more relevant experience. She had no relevant skills for the second position and I only interviewed her because my boss invited her to interview :smack:. For this most recent position, she was very well-qualified, so I talked to her references. They were horrible, as in “she’s the last person I would hire”. So, I offered the position to another candidate with great references.
Now the problem is that this woman is sort of an internal candidate. Over a year ago, she was terminated from a lab on my floor due to lost funding. (That’s the official reason. I’m sure the bad reference issues were part of it too.) Since then, she has been volunteering in different labs on my floor and is now in the lab next door. She has gotten more hostile towards me with each rejection. She showed up unannounced in my office this morning to inquire about the status of the most recent search. When I told her that we had offered someone else, she started arguing with me about her qualifications. Frankly, I’m nervous having her around with access to my office and lab. Am I over-reacting? Is there a role for HR in this?
This is just my opinion…but I’d be honest. If I were in that woman’s shoes, hearing mealy mouthed platitudes “we’re sorry, but someone else was more qualified for the position” would just make me angry. I’d just say straight up “look, on paper you are qualified for this job. However, your references are terrible. Use someone else as your reference when you apply elsewhere - that’s what is screwing you over. Maybe you’re a good person to hire, but I only have so many slots and I can’t take the risk.”
Who knows. Maybe her references are liars and she’s a good employee. Happens all the time. You shouldn’t be blocked from obtaining decent employment based on the word of 1 or 2 people. She should know that’s what the reason is.
If you are honest and don’t anger someone with lies and meaningless platitudes, I doubt she’ll harm your lab. The people who gave her a bad rep…well…
I wouldn’t tell her about the bad references, that will get the (presumably honest) references in trouble and also probably cause her to fix/change the references and pass the problem onto the next potential employers.
Second getting HR involved, and is her volunteering useful/desirable since she seems to be hanging around just in hopes of getting a job that probably will not be given to her?
If this happens again, it is (probably) officially harassment.
In the mean time, inform HR immediately that she is a problem.
If she comes back to you after without your consent, it may become a security issue - her value as a volunteer only goes so far, and if she starts harassing people every time there is an opening, she is going to become a liability.
Me, I’d like to find out exactly why she got such glowing reviews - was she viewed as a threat, or just an annoyance?
Because we work in the same department, I know her references well. I have no reason to doubt their honesty. It certainly fits with the behavior I’ve personally seen from her.
The problem is I’m going to continue to run into her on a daily basis. It’s not my responsibility to have a discussion about why she’s a bad hire, but she’ll keep asking every time I see her. I talked to HR. They are going to talk to her about the process and assure her that all of the policies were followed. Basically, they’re going to give her a chance to escalate or back down. I can’t say that I’m too comfortable with that, but I’m kinda stuck.
This does not “happen all the time” with references. What does happen all the time with references is that all they’re willing to confirm are dates of employment, because HR is afraid of liability for saying anything else whatsoever.
If references in an academic environment are going out of their way to comment regardless. Particularly as the OP has picked up on hostility, which would seem to reinforce that there is cause for the poor references.
Absolutely get HR involved.
edit: Ah, they were internal references; those are more likely to be forthcoming. Nonetheless, if she persists in harassing you about this after HR talks to her, report each incident to HR and continue to ask what they will do to resolve the situation. This is HR’s job… but HR is not always good at that job.
Why even bother yourself with this? You don’t owe her a single thing, so just look her in the eye and say that not only do you not intend to comment further on the hiring, but that frankly it was inappropriate of her to demand an explanation.
I can see somebody politely asking for feedback on the interview, but going into the office and starting to argue about qualifications with a guy who passed you over 3 times already? What the hell did she think that was going to achieve?
If I am reading this correctly she is essentially volunteering at your lab in hopes that a paying job opens up, correct?
If that is the case and her references are all awful she needs to be told that her volunteer efforts are no longer needed and be sent on her way. If she is good enough at what she does that you guys want to keep her around she should be hired for a paying position somewhere in the company. If you need the volunteers badly enough that you can’t send her away but she isn’t good enough to hire someone needs to sit down with her and tell her what she is doing wrong so she can improve enough to get hired for a paying gig. Whatever is done should be done by HR, but if she has been there for a while and continues to be overlooked I can understand her anger even if you are completely reasonable in not hiring her.
She doesn’t volunteer for me. She volunteers for another professor in the same lab space. I have no influence over what they do. You can think of each lab as an independent business housed under the university. She’s been hoping that one of the labs would open a space, not necessarily the one she’s volunteering in.
She may be harassing but it’s not legal harassment only pertains to something that is a protected class, such as race or religion or sex.
H/R may have a policy where the don’t tell people what’s wrong with them. One thing I do at my job is I help people on public aid get jobs. We work “unofficially” with a lot of companies to provide feedback. Some of my candidates sent out, would never get any feedback for company policies often just refuse to give it out for fear of being sued. This is where I come in on an “unofficial” basis and help. For instance the store isn’t going to tell the candidate sorry you have had three dozen misdemeanors, I’m not hiring you, but they will tell me, so I can work on trying to get these people into companies that work with people with records.
My advise in your case is do NOT get involved. Simply state, we went with a more qualified candidate. Then refer her to H/R. If she asks, tell her, “I’m not sure, and I certainly don’t want to give you any misinformation. But I’m certain H/R can answer your question to your satisfaction.”
Then say “Would you like me to ring them on the phone now so you can make an appointment.” The trick is to not give them a choice to argue. At this point she can say “No” and leave or say “Yes,” make the appointment and it’s not your issue anymore.
From the other side being a candidate, if your company rejects you for more than two internal promotions, it’s time to leave. And remember not to take it personal, though it’s hard not to.
Your first instinct is usually to want to help people, but you can only help them 50% of the way and I have learned the hard way you will get no where and no thank yous for going over this 50%.
Seems like the PI of the lab she’s volunteering for should be made privy to how she’s behaving, since they are acting in the capacity of a mentor rather than an employer. And it sounds like she needs someone like a mentor to sit her down and tell her about herself.
It’s painful when someone can’t catch a clue. You’d think after this latest rejection, she’d maybe suspect something’s going on with her references.
I’m really undecided about whether to tell her current PI. Part of me is genuinely concerned (scared?) that she has access to my workspace and is in such a desperate place financially. But there’s another part of me that thinks that retaliation is rare and unlikely and I don’t want to punish her for my knee-jerk reaction. If I told the other PI, I’m 99% sure he’d terminate her volunteer position.
She left campus before HR could talk to her today. I’m thinking I may work from home tomorrow and give it a day to settle down.
No one should be afraid in their workspace, Red Stilettos.
Remember back when I was going through a scary situation and you told me to tell my boss? I’m only telling you to do what you (wisely) recommended back then. It’s only because she’s volunteering in this guy’s lab that she has access to your lab. Ergo, he has some responsibility in all of this. Either he needs to act like a mentor and set her straight. Or he needs to tell her that her free labor is not worth the headaches she’s causing, and let her go.
You shouldn’t have to feel intimidated all day while he goes about his life obliviously. Why should you be the only one who’s afraid of Crazy Chick?
Wow. I had totally forgotten about that thread. Glad to see the update that B. was fired.
The volunteer PI is at a conference this week, so I can’t talk to him directly. But, I can speak to his lab manager and give her a heads up about the situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if the crazy candidate asks her what happened, making the assumption that it was a bad rec from them (which it wasn’t; theirs was luke-warm).
HR is going to talk to her as soon as they can. They will let me know the response to that meeting and we’ll go from there. I don’t really think she’ll put up a fuss with them, but you never know. How long can I stay in my office with the door locked? :o
