“Hyper Ground System” Huh? (automobile question)

Howdy guys:

Cool board ya have here.

While looking for performance mods for my truck, I came across this:

http://store.racinglab.com/hygrsyforfor1.html

“The new “Hyper Ground System” is the safe and reliable generation tuning system that provides a low resistance ground path. A better ground gives more Torque,better Mileage, better Response, and better Starting Ability.”

“This system provides direct ground path from battery negative to body, chassis, and engine components to give extreme improvement on electrical circulation. In addition “Hyper Ground System” cables have 10 times less impedance than factory ground systems which provides immaculate conduction to prevent electrical power loss.The higher resistance of factory grounds, effect the ignition system and obstructs the primary potential. The “Hyper Ground System” uses thick gauge 99.99% pure copper, and connects directly from the cylinder head and other points under the hood to the battery, to provide an ultra low resistance connection.This will increase the primary potential of regular cars to ignition tuned vehicles.”

Package Included:
Contains Battery Terminal clamp and 5 Hyper Ground Wires in the following size: 400mm(15.7in),500mm(19.7in),600mm(23.6in), 750mm(29.5in),900mm(35.4in).
Can anyone explain to me how the grounding on an engine could affect performance?

Is this snake oil and if not at $150.00 is it riceboy overkill way past past the point of diminishing returns?

This is a big heap of steaming bullshit. It’s possible to slightly lower the path-to-ground resistance by installing heavier cables and cleaning and tightening connections and binding posts, but by an order of magnitude? No way. A better ground might do some good for starting, where there’s a large current flow, but when the engine is running–even with the lights on, there’s not that much of a load on the electrical system where any putative groundning improvements are going to make a significant difference. If your ground is so poor that performance is suffering, you’d do better to just clean and tighten the connections.

Thanks Q.E.D.

I’ll put you down in the snakeoil column.

When it comes to mechanics I do ok, I can understand gears, rods, cranks and whatnot but I have to admit, when it comes to electrons whizzing all about I just get lost.

Anyone else?

I highly recommend the Hyper Ground System. I also recommend using this power cord in your home theater system.

2800.00 for a power cord? :eek:

Holy sweet Jesus with a set of tow chains!

I thought the thread was about ground effect aerodynamics :frowning:

The alternator is a constant voltage device so if the ground is poor with a high resistance wouldn’t there be less current flow and so less parasitic drag on the engine?

And worth every penny. After installing the cord you will experience more clarity and smoothness in the midrange, more transparency and resolution in the low end, greater neutrality and presence in the high end, and less fatiguing and harmonically-balanced transients. Your system will come to life.

Wait, won’t that cord only work if all the cables from your wall to the power plant are also…

whooooooooooooooooooooosh!!!

Unless you’re driving Tom Swift’s Amazing Electric Air Car, an improved ground isn’t gonna make any perceivable difference. But you could convince yourself of this by taking an Ohmeter and measuring the resistance from various places in your engine to ground. Assuming they’re supposed to be grounded, then I imagine the resistance is going to be essentially zero.

When it comes to audiophilia, once you add the accumulative affects of-
Gunfire, Black Sabbath concerts, grenade simulators, straight piped motorcycles, and my old lady
I tend to run into the afore mentioned law of diminishing returns a bit earlier than most.

Childen take care of your hearing and you too can spend 2k on a power cord.

If no one else is going to say it…

No, resistance is futile

Disagree with this part of your statement (but not the overall conclusion).

Resistance from the ground battery terminal to any other point (cylinder head, for example) in a normal engine will be small, but not zero. There’s no reason to think that you couldn’t cut this resistance down by a factor of ten. In particular, the path from any point (say, the head, again) to the battery goes through multiple parts: head to head bolts to block to ground lug to ground wire to another lug to chassis to another lug to battery cable to terminal. Maybe not quite so many steps, but you get the picture. All the pieces, and the contact resistance between them, add to the total resistance.

I infer from the product description that the system here is simply multiple cables, so the head would screwed directly to a cable leading directly to the battery terminal. This eliminates multiple parts and additional contact resistance, and I don’t see why you couldn’t eliminate overall resistance by a factor of ten.

Of course, I doubt this does you any good, practically, as the impedence through the normal path has got to be way less, by multiple orders of magnitude, than that through the rest of the igniton system and whatnot.

Voltage drop is the meaningful thing to measure, not resistance. A single strand of copper wire could show zero ohms resistance, but it sure couldn’t handle the power to an ignition coil, much less to a starter.

Voltage drop measurements must be made while the circuit is under its operating amperage load. If it’s excessive, it can usually be rectified by cleaning and tightening connections, or in some cases by increasing the wire’s carrying capacity – add a wire (easy to do for most grounds) or substitute a thicker wire. Ordinary inexpensive wire works just fine, unless you just gotta spend 100+ bucks.

As others have indicated, it’s very doubtful there’s much if any benefit to be gained by increasing ground carrying capacity (assuming the factory set-up is in good condition), but if there were, there are certainly more affordable ways to go about it.

No, it would not. It would read quite a lot more than zero ohms, though an inexpensive multimeter might not be able to resolve it. Per Ohm’s Law, voltage drop across a conductor is inversely proportional to the resistance of the conductor for a given current flow. What is meaningful in your example is current-carrying capacity or fusing current. Heavier wires are used, not so much because of lower resistance (though that does play a part), but mostly because a heavier wire can carry simply more current without heating to the point of failure. I can arrange two identical setups, using the same voltage and load, with identical resistances (one using a long length of heavy wire, the other using a short length of thin wire). Under these circumstances. the voltage drop will be identical in both circuits, but the circuit using thinner wire will fail at a much lower current than the one using heavy wire.

Zut - Maybe, but in a vehicle with good clean, tight connections, I think an improvement of an order of magnitude would be extremely difficult to acheive. All the metal parts of the engine that in the circuit path are alreay pretty well grounded if everything is installed properly.

[EE nitpick]
I think you meant to say the voltage drop is directly proportional to the resistance of the conductor for a given current flow. Or, the voltage drop across a conductor is inversely proportional to the conductance of the conductor for a given current flow…
[/EE nitpick]

Right. I know what I wanted to say, but my fingers had other ideas.

To cut to the chase on the OP… anyone who installs that device must make a blanket assumption that the electrical engineers at General Motors (or whoever) didn’t know what the hell they were doing when they designed the vehicle’s electrical distribution system. And if they make that assumption, why are they not also assuming the rest of the vehicle is a POS? And if that’s the case, why do they want to own the car in the first place? :confused:

Not particularly true. Resistance increases with temperature, so well before the point of failure, you’ll see some differences in the voltage drop as the thinner wire heats up and its resistance rises. (If we were talking high frequencies, you’d also see some of the “skin” effect lauded by audiophiles when hawking Monster cable, but that’s not an issue for DC current.)

It’s also a quibble to say that a copper conductor has a resistance over 0 ohms. For the application, current, and voltages we’re discussing here, the difference between 0 and a couple of microOhms isn’t really relevant.

Yes, technically, you’re correct. But I’m confident Q.E.D. already knows copper has a PTC, and didn’t want to complicate the discussion any more than necessary. For the record, what Q.E.D. said was correct; the shorter, thinner wire has much less surface area, and thus its temperature will be much higher than the other (longer and thicker) wire for the same magnitude of current. The insulation on the shorter, thinner wire will thus fail sooner.