Yes yes I admit it. I enjoyed the Icewind Dale Trilogy and the Dark Elf Trilogy. I play D&D and really felt the books captured the spirit of the game. Exciting and interesting without being too silly or too over-dramatic.
My question is this: Has anyone read his Canticle series? Are they good? I would like to read a series where magic features more heavily.
Also, is the Legacy of the Drow series any good? I can surely see the potential on burning out on the whole Drizz’t thing.
First, with Ed Greenwood. Greenwood, as a writer, really has the technical skills down pat. He’s got good pacing, good dialogue and writes very intricate plots. HOWEVER, he’s also obsessed with sex. And not just in that twelve-year-old, oh-my-god-a-pair-of-boobies way, either. All his female characters seem to spend half their time running around naked except for thigh-high leather boots. His main character of Elminster is also overused and experiences all those things that Ed wishes he was. Don’t bother with the Greenwood novels.
As for Salvatore, the quality of his novels depends on the series. The Canticle series I enjoyed immensely. Very easy reading and fun. Reads much like a movie. And it’s neat to see a main character who’s a cleric, and how his clerical abilities change and mature. Very cool.
His Legacy of the Drow starts out extremely well, and the first couple of books are a lot of fun. But now that he’s up to, what, eight LoD books, it’s getting old. I wish he’d stop with that series and concentrate on something a little fresher.
I vaguely recall reading some of Greenwood’s Forgotten Realms books a decade ago (though I couldn’t tell you which titles), and generally enjoying them. This prompted me to buy the first book (The Kingless Land) in Greenwood’s non-TSR related The Band of Four series. I really didn’t like it. I particularly didn’t care for all of the “jokes” that the characters kept making. They reminded me of the humor from gaming sessions I’ve been in, in that what is said is funny within the context of joking around with your friends, but actually reading a transcript of the session probably wouldn’t be that amusing. It was hard to get into the spirit of the story when the heros kept making jokes that made me do little but roll my eyes. The second book in the series is out now, but I’m not getting it.
Either Greenwood did quite a bit better with his Elminster books or my tastes have changed. But I’ve sworn off gaming related novels, so I can’t go back and read those books to find out.
To be honest, all those AD&D novels sort of blend together into one big mess in my memory. I enjoyed the Icewind Dale trilogy in depreciating amounts per book (really liked #1, was getting bored by #3) but the Drow books were just… eh. I didn’t care for them. Parts of them were so clichéd that I didn’t know if I wanted to laugh or cry.
I think I read the first Canticle and wasn’t impressed enough to buy the rest as they came out. Didn’t Ed Greenwood co-write Azure Bonds with Someone-or-Another Novak? (I want to say Kim, but that’s because I know a Kim Novak). Anyway, always liked Azure Bonds even now when it feels like fluff writing in many parts, it’s still an enjoyable read. Didn’t care for the other two – they just had a “Gee, people bought A.Z. which was a complete story, but let’s make it into a trilogy somehow so people will buy more books” feel.
Those Avatar (the trilogy where the Forgotten Realms deities get the boot from Deity County U.S.A.) novels annoyed the hell out of me for some reason. I don’t know exactly why, but I think I only finished them out of spite. Who wrote those, anyway?
Well, now that I’ve rambled on about everything besides the OP, I’ll finish up by saying my personal favorites out of the AD&D genre remain the first two Dragonlance trilogies. I just re-read the Chronicles again which make for nice bedtime reading and figure I might as well have another go at the Legends. Never cared much for the non-Hickman/Weiss ones though except for The Legend of Huma and its follow-up Kaz the Minotaur had its moments.
Salvatore; I loved the Icewinddale triology and liked the Dark elf one, the triology afterwards (have forgotten the name) around mithril Hall was… crap imo. Didnt like it at all.
Greenwood, the only thing I ever read from him was Elminster, making of a mage… I burned the book, some evil cant be just disposed in the recycling bin(no kidding). It was so badly clichee ridden and purely Munchkinism that we actually burned two (my friend wasted good money on another one too).
I hate Salvatore. I will hate him forever, 'til my dying day and beyond. I am so filled with hate for the guy that I want to change my last name to Falwell.
Why, you ask? I’ll tell you.
He wrote a Star Wars book not too long ago. It was entitled Star Wars: The New Jedi Order: Vector Prime. It was a pretty boring book, very unoriginal, not very Star Wars-ish. Flat, bland… it would be completely beneath notice if it weren’t for one thing:
He killed Chewbacca.
Yup, the ratbastard killed off our beloved Chewie. Probably the most interesting character in the entire series. Killed off.
R.A. Salvatore dropped a moon on Chewbacca. And I will always hate him for it.
My ex-roomie’s take: Salvatore writes good action and shitty stories.
That being said, Canticle was alright except for, I believe, the second one. Some very memorable characters all around, and I really liked it when I read it. Of course this was when I was in seventh grade or so, so YMMV.
I’m with Jophiel on this one. If you want an awsome series of AD&D style books go with Dragonlance. Specifically, The Chronicles and Legends. The later was the story of Raistlin and Caramon Majere. So good…so good.
I read the very very first Dragonlance book and didn’t like it. It didn’t read like D&D to me, it read like most fantasy - someone trying to be Tolkein. I’m not looking for an epic fantasy, just a good adventuring story. The first Dragonlance you had mages that never cast spelles, and when one of them finally cast, like, Affect Normal Fires, everyone was awed and the guy was drained.
Looks like the Canticle books are worth checking out then. thanks!
Those pieces of steaming tripe were written by three gentlemen who collaborated under the pen name Richard Awlinson (all-in-one… get it? get it? Okay, I didn’t find it amusing either). I know one of them was Troy Denning, but the other two names escape me (I think Scott Ciencin may have been one, but can’t remember the other). Those books killed any interest I ever had in gaming-based novels, they were so poor. However, the follow-up novels Prince of Lies and Crucible were actually pretty damn good!
And I’ll second the emotions on Dragonlance… loved the Heroes and Legends series but got kinda burned out after the fifteenth Tales trilogy. And the Meetings trilogy. And Fifth Age. And… <trailing off to long, snuffling snore>
I’m no Salvatore fan, but I’ll defend him for a moment. I read an interview where he talks about this in brief. Long story short, he didn’t kill Chewbacca, the publishers did. Who ever publishes the SW novels (I don’t read 'em) told him “this is what’s going to happen, now write about it.” Salvatore actually refused to write the book for a while (probably because he thought of fans like you) but the publishers made it clear that (A) They had a good reason for doing so and (B) Chewbacca was gonna die whether Salvatore wrote about it or someone else.
In short, it’s not all his fault. If you want to blame him for something, blame him for the 250,000 dark elven dual-scimitar wielding ranger outcasts with violet eyes in the world of RPGs
Oh, and Azure Bonds was Kate Novak & Jeff Grubb. Pulled the book out last night.
I’m not going to try to make you like Dragonlance. If it wasn’t your thing, so be it. But you are mistaken on the spells. Off the top of my head, I can think of:
Web
Sleep
Magic Missile
Featherfall
Friends
Knock
Fireball (cast by Fizban)
Detect Magic
Read Magic (assumed when he got the spellbook from Onyx’s lair)
All being cast. I don’t recall Affect Normal Fires being cast, but it might have been. Mind you, they never said “Then Raistlin cast Knock” (except in the case of Featherfall when Raistlin actually says Pfvetherphall or something like that when he casts it) but it was pretty obvious what spells were being used. Keep in mind that Raistlin had recently finished testing at the Towers which occurs at level three if you want to use AD&D terminology so he wouldn’t be throwing out Wish or power words or anything. The physical effects were partly to show that mages in Krynn were bound by having to rest and recover after casting spells and partly used as a plot device to show Raistlin’s own fragile state since he seemed more affected by spellcasting than the average caster (say, Gilanthas). Personally, I prefer spell descriptions over throwing mechanical gaming terms into a novel.
*As for Chewie, well, that was mandated. When they told me I had to put that in the book, I asked where I could return their check, because I wasn’t going to do it. Then they convinced me that it was being done for the right creative reasons and so I agreed. I took a ton of grief (and death threats) for Vector Prime…still do. It’s got more to do with Chewie, though. Vector Prime marked a definitive change in Star Wars literature, a new
publisher and a jumping on point for people who hadn’t read any before. Obviously, to some of those who were immersed in the previous series, enjoying the works of authors like Tim Zahn and Kevin Anderson, the change was not welcomed.
It was pretty tough and I don’t know that I’d have done the book, knowing what I know now. On the other hand, it got me the chance to work with editor Shelly Shapiro, a giant in the business, and to work with the folks at Lucasfilm, and they’re a great group of people. It also got me the chance to work with George Lucas and Episode II, and who wouldn’t jump at that?
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I only read one book by Salvatore, it was one of the Dark Elf trilogy (the first I think). It was more than enough for me. I’ve defintely read worse writing, but it was annoying enough to be noticeable.
