I always feel like this in Feb. (race related)

I’ve been thinking about this for some time, please bear with me if it seems a little disjointed. Disjointed probably best describes my feelings towards this issue. My primary reason for posting it now is that it’s Black History Month, and so maybe I’m reflecting this on a micro-scale. Then again I’m watching my boys grow up and find myself feeling really anxious over the world they’re growing up into. For whatever it’s worth here it is.

I never really got prejudice. I mean the concept never conceptualized for me until it became personal. I grew up with probably most of the admonishments from my family and acquaintances that most Black Dopers grew up with. Like working twice as hard to receive the same credit; being careful around police; areas of town to avoid, because the people there wouldn’t like me there. But it was like hearing ‘don’t talk to strangers’, just a concept that didn’t resonate. I even remember watching Roots in my early teens, and though I can remember feeling a general anger, it still didn’t gel that this was something I needed to relate to.

When I was 13 we moved to California, and I made a friends with a kid across the street named Mike. One day we were riding our bikes down Doolittle in San Leandro when it hit me, both figuratively and literally. I was hit in the back of the head with an apple, to the accompaniment of the yelling of “Nigger”. Four white guys in a car roared past laughing, then they turned around and came back. They started yelling at Mike asking him what he was doing with a nigger. They did this several times, driving back and forth and yelling at either Mike or myself. It was the first time I could remember thinking “why do they hate me, they don’t know me”, the first time I could remember feeling fear of being hurt for no reason. What I remember most about the incident was thinking, ‘why won’t anybody stop’, cars were constantly passing us, and we were both crying and trying desperately to get away.

Other than a knot on the back of my head, I wasn’t seriously injured outwardly at least, but I’ve carried the incident with me since. Like a scab that you can’t help picking I would revisit that afternoon over and over in my mind, I guess wondering if I caused it somehow. In the intervening years I’ve experienced other incidents, most minor like being escorted out of town by the police for the crime of playing video games. But it was that first incident that told me I could be hated for nothing more than existing.

I think for the most part I’ve successfully kept that incident from coloring my perceptions in my dealings with people of other races. I’ve also resisted teaching my sons the same things I heard from my family growing up. I haven’t told them to expect prejudice. When incidents like the Byrd dragging happened I was relieved that they were to young to watch the news, because I didn’t want to explain something as irrational as racial hatred. I’m not sure how wise that is, because I know the world only changed so much since I was kid. I’m in my late thirties now and I think a moderately successful businessman, but I still find myself wondering should I drive my 87 Escort to work, or the BMW I bought last year, because my business is in the same city I was once escorted out of.

I wonder if I’m doing my boys a disservice by not telling them stories like the one I related. I want them to think of themselves as individuals capable of anything, and teaching them that some people might want to hold them back for something out of their control seems somehow wrong to me. I want them to live in a better world than the one I lived in but I’m sure that world isn’t here yet. What do you Dopers think?

I agree with your initial inclination - don’t tell, nothing positive will come out of it. (After they get old enough to have seen the cold hard world, and their worldviews are more set I would tell).

But I also agree with your tie-in to BHM. Having a strong positive identification with their ethnicity will help them deal with negativity, if and when it comes.

Best of luck. :slight_smile:

Well, I am neither a parent nor a minority. But I think I would try to explain some of these unpleasant facts. They will run into them eventually and pre-knowledge of what could be out there might not save all or even any of the hurt, but it could at least help with the inevitable confusion.

I would think it can be done in a gentle way - i.e. trying getting across the notion that there are some “ignorant”, “confused”, or “angry” ( or just plain insane, but you might want to skip that ) people out there that might say or do rude things ( or worse ) to them based on nothing more than the color of their skin. But that this is only some people - not all or even most anymore ( depending where you are ), and they should never pre-judge in return for the same reason. I think if I were in your shoes, I might not make a big deal about it, but I’d probably say something about the issue.

I know for myself, I was caught very much by surprise by my first real encounter with racist thought in the fifth grade ( it involved a casual, off-the-cuff remark by some Mormon missionaries coming door-to-door - a fact that should not be construed as a slam on Mormons in general in any way ). It confused and disturbed the heck out of me and I was just a little white kid. I had to have mother try to explain what they were thinking saying and I still really couldn’t wrap my mind around it for a few years ( my background to that point was such that I was really completely unprepared for casual racism ). I think I would have been a bit better off having the facts of life, so to speak, explained to me in some fashion by that point. Even if in a very light manner. I can only imagine it would be even more relevant in your children’s cases.

  • Tamerlane

I might add that there is also at least some elements of a safety issue here as well. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Explaining what some of those situations are where it might be worth exercising that discretion when you are a child, might be helpful.

Then again, I understand the impulse not to scare or alienate a child from society. So maybe you’re right. Your situation is not one I would relish being in, I have to say.

Best of luck :).

  • Tamerlane

I don’t think I would say anything until the situation comes up. Do your kids have friends of other ethnic groups? If they do, than that’s easier because you can contrast these friends with ignorant racists.

From my own youth, my family was watching “Blazing Saddles” when I was quite young (well, my padres were and I sort of wandered in) and that was my first real introduction to the word nigger. I don’t remember the whole thing exactly, but the gist of it was that I asked them what the word means and my parents explained it’s implications and informed me that if I ever called someone a nigger, I had better not come crying to them if they punched all of my teeth out. And that’s a rule I plan on imparting to my children.

Here’s what I think in general - your kids should be prepared for a world that’s less than enlightened. It would be marvelous if you could do this without scaring them, or making them feel as though they deserve this kind of treatment. To teach them to “keep their heads down” so to speak is to imply that they may deserve to be treated that way. They should be able to take pride in who they, as individuals, are, but still understand that there are a lot of real idiots out there - of all colors.

Here is my opinion on the matter… take it for what it’s worth, come from a whitey :smiley:
I joined a minority by choice (Judaism, if anyone cares) and I had heard all about anti-Semitism. I was very open about not being a Christian, and didn’t think that here in my own high school (well, used to be my high school. Thankfully, I graduated!) I would be singled out. I live in Oklahoma, and it seems like everyone here is some brand of Christian that if you don’t believe exactly like they do, you’re going to hell and they are glad to supply the handbasket. Yes, there are exceptions, unfortunately I have found them to be the minority around here. One of my teachers “found out” and he teased and picked on me mercilessly. He had the support of just about the whole class because he was also the wrestling coach, and sponsor of the FCA (Fellowship of Christian Atheletes). I was floored. I never expected this, especially from a teacher. Heck, this guy was generally okay, personable, told funny stories in class, but could not stand to have a Jew in his class.
Unfortunately I have other examples, but this is the one that bothers me the most. I will make sure that my children (when I have them) know that it’s out there, but that not everyone holds these views.
I hope somehow this has helped you in your search, Stuffy

I grew up in a housing project in Downtown Brooklyn (at that time, racially mixed). In the 3rd grade, I was tranferred to an IGC class (intellectually gifted children) in the neighboring Brooklyn Heights (upper middle class white).

I experienced no overt racism - don’t ever remember being called a “nigger” - and was invited to most of the little white kids’ birthday parties, etc. When I had my own birthday party, however, none of the little white kids from the Heights showed up. All their parents had excuses why their children simply could not attend. I didn’t need my mother to tell me that something was wrong with that picture, but I did need her to explain what it was.

On a counternote, I was born and summered in a small town in midwestern Pennsylvania, very close to some of the poorest areas of Appalachia. We lived in town, but my cousin lived on “Ridge Road” which was an upper middle class neighborhood on…the ridge! You could follow the highway up around to Ridge Road, or you could take a shortcut along the dirt paths through the Appalachian foothills - if you didn’t mind being called “nigger” every step of the way - by folks who lived in tin shacks with no running water or electricity, hadn’t bathed in at least 8 months and who signed their names with an “X.”

There are ways and there are ways to educate your children about the various faces of racism. I’ve found that, in general, racism among the lower socio-economic classes, regardless of race, is usually more prurient and vicious than the kind encountered among the upper socio-economic classes, but it hurts regardless of its source.

Stuffy, like you I was raised to be aware. If my mother had had her way, it would have been for me to never give a white person the benefit of the doubt. All whites were suspected of prejudice until they proved themselves otherwise. If I complained of a mean teacher, my mother wanted to know what race he or she was. If she was white, the teacher needed a “talking to”. If she was black, what was I complaining about? But because many of my friends were white, I resisted her teachings to certain extent.

Even though I disagree with her approach, I understand where she’s coming from. I’m not as paranoid as she is, but I do have a fine-tuned raydar for racists and bigots. I’m not as willing to trust people, either. These are survival skills, IMHO. Trusting everyone is dangerous, and believing people won’t sometimes respond to your race negatively is naive. It would be a disservice to your children not to teach them about racism. They are going to encounter it sooner or later, and they need to know that their experiences aren’t unusual or anything they need to be ashamed about.

My opinion on this, is to teach your kids (gently enough to not place chips upon their shoulders) that in the real world there are people who will begrudge them what they have and what they achieve, and even ones who would attempt to harm them over it.

I think you do them a disservice if you connect this behaviour to any one group however. It is just as possible that the descrimination they meet, or the hatefullness they encounter will be at the hands of an asian woman, or another black man* as from “a white racist”. The racism they can be subjected to by whites is probably not the one that is going to surprise them.

No matter what your shape, size, colour, whatever, there is always someone who thinks you don’t deserve what you have worked for, and who will begrudge you it, and try and prevent you from attaining it. This goes for everything from somone not getting a job because they are black, to an attractive woman getting no respect in her job because people want to assume she got it based on looks, to a white man who is begrudged what he has achieved through hard work because others believe he had it handed to him for being white.

*Obviously I am not thinking specifically racism in this case, but I have black guys who have been of the opinion that other blacks that achieve in life are “selling out” or “trying to be white”.

On or near MLK day MPR featured a commentator who was black. He has biracial children and due to the fact that they are lightskinned and also young (not to mention living somewhere fairly enlightened) they haven’t experience problems with racism. One of his daughters wrote an essay about how MLK’s dream was realized. The dad was reflecting on that and how it wasn’t true, but he was torn about how (or whether) to tell his daughter that. And he also confessed to feeling an ambivalence: on the one hand he was grateful that they hadn’t felt prejudice, but on the other hand he mourned that his daughters and he didn’t have the shared experience of bigotry that binds black people on an intimate way.

It was astoundingly thought-provoking (at least for this white mommy) and I wish I could recall the fellow’s name. At any rate, your post reminded me of hearing it.

Neurotik I lived in a pretty mixed neiborhood, and in fact my kids freinds look like a meeting of Wee Pals.

Thanks everone for the replies, I’m still thinking them over, but you’ve all raised some excellent points.

Iteki I’ve lived with that all my life, I’m pretty sure Mostro has heard the same, I no longer let it bother me.

I mentioned it because it sounded like you said your kids are growing up in an environment where they are more protected from crappy attitudes. When you haven’t grown up with it it’s a complete smack in the face. I say having grown up learning “girls are just as good as boys and can do anything they can do”, and then being completely stunned and dismayed when I encountered women who believed that I had “ideas above my station” or was “trying to be a guy” or whatever when I lived according to it. The same thing goes for the shock of finding people within the gay community who were actually trying to tell me how to live my life, saying what was and wasn’t “selling out”.

I know you know :slight_smile: sadly :frowning: , I was just airing my mind on the enemies within, as well as without, so to speak :slight_smile:

Iteki, a smack in the face is still better than living a life in fear.

imagine always examining people’s motives, being suspicious, jumping to take offence when none was meant, full of self pity.

that, in my experience was what happened to a lot of my friends in Northern ireland who were told that “the other side” was out to get them. and trust me, these people don’t lack pride in their self-identified groups.

i’m white, but i don’t look it, so i’ve had my share of racist comments.
but if you don’t accept that it’s THAT particular person and move on,YOU end up being poorer for it.

everybody is going to face prejudice and ignorance from certain people. it’s a fact of life.
but not one that has to make any real difference to your life if you choose not to allow it to.

The line between trying to keep a kid idealistic while trying to prepare them for harsh realities is a tricky one, and almost every parent walks it at some point. It’s damn hard to give kids a healthy sense of caution and not worry that you’re scaring them too much.

Educating kids about racism is kind of like educating your daughters about rape. If they don’t know the possibility exists, they can’t protect themselves from it. You don’t want to hammer on it too much, though, or they become afraid to live their lives.

In this case, I’d probably take the same sort of approach my mother took with sexism. When I was small, she confined it to “Some people don’t think girls can do some things as well as boys. Those people are wrong, so go show them just how well a girl can do.” As I got older, she expanded it to “There aren’t as many of those people as there used to be. Things were very different when I was a little girl.” The older I got, the more she explained to me about history and her own experiences.

The big thing is to keep it age appropriate. Don’t tell your kids the apple story until they’re old enough for it not to frighten them half to death. Do tell them that some people in the world won’t like them because of their skin color, or their religion, or their gender, or their hobbies. For a certain type of person, it will always be something.