There’s a difference between good and effective. Effective depends on your audience. The way Trump speaks appeals to his target audience.
Here’s the thing: Donald Trump ran for president in 2000, and barely made it into primary season. He was famous then, though not as famous as he was after The Apprentice. Bernie Sanders has been in politics for a long time, speaking on national radio and TV programs for a long time, and hardly anyone paid attention.
Both Trump and Sanders succeeded in 2016 because times had changed, and because Americans now are comparatively much more cynical about their own democracy and economy than they used to be.
I think the results of 2016 are the result of several great tectonic shifts that have occurred over the last 30-40 years, but the most intense of these have been in the last 20, beginning with 9/11 and continuing with the failed Iraq War and the global financial crisis of 2008. This is also on top of the fact that trade deals that were supposed to create wealth for Americans, haven’t. The rich reap the biggest profits from economic booms, and everyone else suffers disproportionately when the economy busts. Adding insult to injury, the corporations, including some of which were directly responsible for ruining the economy, get taxpayers money from those who are suffering while the taxpaying worker who gets laid off gets virtually nothing. This is a situation that’s ripe for a rebellion at the ballot box, and that’s what 2016 was.
Trump is a blowhard whose speaking style wouldn’t matter if Americans had any faith in their institutions, but they don’t. This is a story that has played out over and over again throughout history, and it’s playing out even now in other countries around the world. Bernie’s a kinder alternative to Trump, but his popularity is, like Trump’s, the product of people fed up with the politics of normal and willing to take a look at radically different alternatives.
“Speaking style” isn’t a term I would use. All he did was channel the hate and resentment of his supporters and give them permission to crawl out from under the rocks and openly express their hatred of anyone who isn’t just like them. His message really was “You hate blacks, so do I! You hate Muslims, so do I! You hate Mexicans, so do I! Vote for me and were gonna screw all of them and screw them HARD!”
I disagree. The stream-of-consciousness style is part and parcel of his not understanding any of the issues. The audiences that you’re talking about like that he just says shit, just because.
You may find it entertaining, but it’s bad for the country. Trump’s off-the-cuff remarks about how great Putin is, how our allies suck, how racists and anti-racists are both good people, etc. are enormously damaging to our society and our standing in the world.
Yes, it’s bad for the country. But why would that stop politicians if they think it can help them win?
It seem to me that he speaks in a way that, while technically awful, effectively captures the thinking style of his base. I would suspect that other politicians might also want to attract that base.
He speaks at a lower vocabulary level than any other politician. He also speaks in very circumlocutions sentence that allow him to sound good while not saying anything. I think the combination of the two actually works for a politician.
Even though it shouldn’t, and anyone should see through this shit.
I think the bigger problem is whether other people can pull it off. I’ve seen circumlocutions, and I’ve seen speaking simply, but never put together. I think it takes a certain level of stupidity and lack of self awareness to pull it off so confidently. Trump actually seems like he thinks everything he’s saying is important.
I can see how people who are very mistrustful of government and politicians would prefer a Republican Bulworth to more of the same because, whether they conceive of themselves as white, Christian, workers, small-town residents or Americans, they perceive a decline they want to do something, anything about. In that situation, how you say something may matter more than what you say because if what you say is a slick, lawyerly, focus-group-tested prevarication, what does it matter what you say?
None of which is to say that Trump voters are more honest or frank. That side of US politics is full of delusion, lies, tendentiousness and dog-whistling.
Because they don’t want to be elected officials of the quality of Trump.
We have a mid-term election in just three months. Let’s see how many congressional candidates in contested seats start making racist “jokes,” insulting our allies, and making shit up on the fly. You think it’s going to be a lot?
I agree it is wrong to get complacent. My point was more that a strongman tends to appeal to authoritarians, and most authoritarians are on the right (especially now).
Trump won 86% of the vote among whites who scored high in authoritarianism.
The left might fall for magical thinking though. I believe Sanders got some criticism because economic studies said his programs would cost far more than he said they would cost.
But as of right now, I don’t see the left acting the way the right is currently acting. Unless the left gets truly desperate, then they may.
You are correct with your analysis and with your comment about his use of humor. People don’t want to admit this because they personally find him off-putting. The simple fact is that many people gravitate to a personality like Trump’s. He has a polarizing personality, but it worked for him this time. I knew he was going to be a force as soon as his announcement was covered and the folks at work (manufacturing firm in Baltimore) were paying attention, for whatever reason it doesn’t matter. People don’t ignore Trump.
Posters are rejecting your claims because a) the only allowable reason for Trump’s victory is white bigotry and b) they don’t have the slightest clue about human psychology on a basic, man-on-the-street level. Do you people really lead lives where brash people like Trump are not successful? I’m sure there are some Vermont hamlets where this is the case, but I don’t think every poster is up there.
I was reading the comics in the newspaper this morning, and the sentence “Mandrake gestured hypnotically!” doesn’t sound so stupid any more.
Agree. (Bolding mine.)
I am in no way shape or form a Trump supporter. And my point was not that the “strongman” style is what hooked people - this is a sidetrack that other people brought up, and it’s still germaine to this discussion so there’s no reason why they shouldn’t - but my thoughts in the OP revolved around basic psychology, not Trump’s politics of resentment and anger.
It evidently has escaped some people’s notice that this thread is about the campaign, not what was said afterward.
“He’s a bafoon, he’s an asshole, he’s an idiot, he’s a blowhard, he’s a liar.” Yeah, we know all that, but it’s not really germane to the point. I happen to agree with the OP. I am, and always have been, fascinated with Trump’s style of speech. I thoroughly enjoyed the Celebrity Apprentice mostly because I just wanted to hear the Donald. I find comedians’ impressions of Trump to be funnier than impressions of other politicians. Probably because the more outrageous the impression, the more accurate it is to the man himself.
Yes, the words he’s saying might be nonsense, but the way he says it is entertaining. The hand gestures and the “WRONG!” outbursts are hilarious. Mocking the reporter, mocking his opponents. Even if you hate it, you can’t look away. And I don’t think it’s any stroke of genius, or that he does what he does by design. I think it’s just the way he is. And for reality TV, it’s great. For being the leader of our country? Maybe not so great.
Also his particular informal, off-the-cuff verbal diarrhea speaking style is very much in line with his “draining the swamp” and being a Washington outsider persona. Just look at how much it contrasts with say… President Obama’s much more formal and dignified public appearance speaking style. I have to feel that’s half the point, and some of the attraction to it- he doesn’t give speeches and talk like Reagan, Bush the Elder, Clinton, Bush the Younger, or Obama. Or to go back further, none of Carter, Ford, Nixon or Johnson spoke in public like Trump either.
Personally, I suspect his speaking style isn’t calculated though; I think it’s a symptom of narcissism and confidence. He just gets up there and runs his mouth because he doesn’t give a shit what people think about how he says it or even really what he’s saying.
Seriously? Trump is ALWAYS campaigning. Or rather, only campaigning. He doesn’t give a shIt about real governing.
I just heard another clip from a Trump speech on the radio. It went, as best as I can remember, something like this:
“I saw Bernie Sanders speaking at a rally…his hair keeps getting whiter and whiter, and he keeps getting crazier and crazier. Crazy Bernie! [roars of laughter from the crowd.] But I have to hand it to him - he means what he says. Oh, Bernie…what a crazy dude.”
I may have gotten some things mixed up but that is almost exactly what he said. Actually I was acutely aware of how well his lines flowed compared to how they usually do - he usually pauses more and stumbles over words a little, in this case his delivery was pretty even. And once again, I thought to myself, “he’s talking about someone exactly the way everyone makes fun of the people that they make fun of behind closed doors and among friends.” When has any other politician ever done this?
YES I KNOW that (rhetorical) question also applies to a lot of other very outrageous things that Trump has done, but this specific behavior doesn’t INHERENTLY need to be tied to acting like a buffoon or being a blowhard.
If Joe Biden, say, delivered the exact same line - but saying “he keeps getting oranger and oranger” or something like that - at a televised rally, the clip would become an instant viral sensation, Democrats would be re-posting it like nobody’s business, and - boom, a burst of energy among the Democratic electorate.
Ronald Reagan would like a few words with you.
The hand gestures are even more distinct and unique to twitler. I only saw one mention of them so far in this thread.
How can anyone not look at him do that and wonder about it? Does he practice? Does he have a coach? Is he in conscious control of the way they are being cycled?
The difference between a speech and incoherent babbling might just rest on that sleight of hand. He wills the speech into being in the minds of those attendees, by “shaping” with his hands, but his words are missing something if you read them. If his hands fail I think he’ll resign or collapse.
Those gestures are super super common in New York. They are stereotypically ascribed to Italians and Jews, but the fact is, most people whose family has been in New York for several generations do it to some degree.
I think - and this is just a theory off the top of my head, but it’s possible that someone has actually studied it - that it has to do with the fact that New York has always had a lot of people speaking many different languages, with highly variable proficiency in English, and so when people from different native languages conversed with each other, they used a lot of nonverbal communication to try to make themselves more easily understood.
You have a point, but I see it differently. Trump doesn’t fence sit on issues. He lets the voters know where he stands. This resonated with the voters,. He is very comfortable speaking in front of crowds.
People are tired of flip flops and politically correct statements.
For his base, Trump has delivered on many campaignpromises less than two years in.
While not an articulate speaker, his vision for the issues and body language, which is actually an important part of communication are quite powerful.