I am going to create my own Comic-strip, or die trying.

Cafe Society
21

I should not have stayed up so late last night, browsing. Now I feel I will have to log off to go to sleep just as soon as I extract the following from my head.

**What is our heroin’s goals in life? What is her inspiration? What the hell is her name? Pamela? Holly? Jenny? Which one? My thought on the matter. **

All her life she has been inspired by the thought of magic being a lost art, not just a pleasant fantasy. Before she was old enough to learn about cause and effect, but old enough to talk, she attributed many things to magic. When she got older, she out grew this. However, she still worried her parents because while she understands physics just fine, she is quite sure that if she studies hard enough, she can defy the laws of nature. Her continuing obsession with this subject brought her a lot of grief with her parents and with her school mates. She has never seen a physiatrist, because she never insisted that she was right enough to make people think she was crazy. A few years ago, she learned how to be much more low-key with her research, and no longer is as teased about it. However, her obsession is just as strong as ever, merely tempered with social camouflage. Her collecting of sources about magic is a major focus of her life, replacing what a normal person would do for entertainment, most of the time. However, she is not totally removed from popular culture, and is involved with some form of regular physical activity, just because her parents insist on it.

Ever since she could dress herself she would get her hands on every paperback book, grimore and work of popular fiction she could, and has tried them all. Since she is running out of room in her attic room, she has begun to archive her books on a computer, and print out what she needs to practice. She has cataloged many of the differing theories of magic, and thought much more into the “logic” behind them than most ancient practitioners. So far, all see seems to have eliminated from the list(Read: All I can think of right now that don’t seem to internally consistent) is magical acts involving making demands of Angels, most forms of Wicca, and

22

One bit of advice I have for all would-be comics creators: get a letterer. Someone who knows what they’re doing and understands why things like balloon placement are important.

Also, use fewer words than you think you’ll need. Comic strip panels are small and if this is going to be a Web comic, the resolution will necessitate larger lettering which will cut into what you can fit in a page.

23

Thank you for the advice, Chairman. However, I would still appreciate receiving input and advice re: my sketch of the heroin, plot, etc. I will work on the story more this week, but for now, I have to use my time sparingly. I am posting this from High Speed Internet Connection at 1201 North Boadwalk (12th st) in OC, MD.

It only costs $2 for one hour, but the computers only have IE, and are riddled with pop-ups. On top of that, the staff assume that nothing will ever go wrong with the computers, and they will never crash. They do, however, much to the dismay of my prior post.

24

As for your idea: eh. Personally, I think the young-folks get superpowers and…something wacky happens has had all the fun mined out of it (no pun intended). It especially seems to be a staple in the indie crowd where in some ways they seem to be using that genre because it allows them to change the rules as they go along and discover more using the guise of characters discovering something new and learning to hide their poor plotting and lack of thinking things through at the outset. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

Note that that’s not necessarily the case here, but that’s where I’m coming from.

The big problem I noticed here is that there’s no introduction to anything. We have no idea who the character is, no idea where she is (suburbs, quarry…yeah there’s one around here, but it doesn’t really fit) and exposition about magic is only going to be painful.

Also, with daily strips and the four panels (I’m assuming this is the format), you’re really forced to shoehorn a complete story into each page. Essentially Act One gets the first panel, Act Two gets the next two and Act III gets the last one. It’s tough and people don’t necessarily like that sort of thing (which is why there are very few non-gag series still around) so you’ve also got the audience’s tastes (or at least the editor’s) against you.

The weekly format will also be a hinderance. Especially if we’re still working the standard format. A continuing series will be difficult if not impossible to sell mainly because a) it will be difficult to get someone to get into something where our first payoff is X stories (and therefore X/4 months) down the road and b) remembering what happened next. Most casual comic fans that I know have a hard enough time remembering what happened last month in the one comic they read, let alone four panels of something they spent less than a minute on a week ago.

Also I assume that the audience is more hipster than troubled teen occultist. In this case, you’ll need something that appeals to them more than the Borders Manga crowd. As I note below, I don’t see that yet.

I think your first strip will be impossible to draw and fit dialogue into. Plus, we have no idea about the character. I suggest a few strips dealing with her normal life before we get the magic thing.

The second strip is nice although we appear to be missing a panel. Remember: one action per panel though. The dialogue is a bit stilted though. We also need to know why practicing magic is bad. This doesn’t need to be explicit but something that would be hinted at in our intro to the character.

Teenager with new powers still has to worry about getting home for dinner: this was new with Spider-Man but only because it was a teenager. That double-life trope has been around since the '40s definitely and I assume since Superman first missed a date with Lois in the '30s.

Unfortunately, I don’t see the hook here. Teenage girl wants to do something forbidden. There’s really got to be something more there.

For a great example on how to tell a continuing story and still get your digs in, I highly suggest Liberty Meadows.

I mean the above to be constructive and not an attack. Take it as you will. Keep working on it, I can see some good stuff coming out of this premise though.

25

Well, that is how I read it, and what I asked for.

Let me see if I follow you. You think that there would be very serious problems making it into a comic strip. Also, you don’t think it sounds to unique. However, you think that there is something salvageable about it, and perhaps it could be worked out to be interesting. What I think would help me the most is to be told what parts and elements you (and anyone else.) think can be developed further, in addition to what I am doing right.

26

  1. A weekly four-panel strip is going to be difficult if not impossible to pull off (a daily strip or a longer strip OTOH…).

  2. " for an audience of what I’m presuming are hipsters instead of manga girls, a straight story of this sort is going to be difficult if not impossible to pull off.

  3. Here’s the big one: there’s not enough here for anyone to really help you.

3a) I hesitate to give any input because

3a1) There’s really very little here to work off of. So, I don’t quite know where you’re going other than, “modern girl learns magic and it’s not what she thought it would be.”

3a2) People I’ve worked to develop ideas with in the past in similar situations to yours (in that they’ve got a vague idea but nothing specific. “I could go this way, but I’d just as well do this…”) tend to end up with little confidence in their own ideas and trying to get the people they asked for help to do all the idea heavy lifting.

My recommendation is this: get all your “background” stuff in order: where the story’s set, who the characters are, what your plot is going to look like. Once you’ve got that, don’t show it to anyone. Instead, write up the first story or two’s worth of strips and then post those. The paper’s audience won’t have any idea about the character’s background or any of that stuff, so ideally your “reviewers” shouldn’t either.

Once you’ve got a dozen strips or so, we’ll be able to give you much better feedback on where your ideas are (or even what they are! Once you get to writing, the ideas you present may not be the ones who thought you wanted. Whether this is because your writing is unclear or the ideas you end up with are more “interesting” than your initial thoughts will then be determined) and how your story flows.

Also, here’s an idea how to format your script to make it easy for people to read. There’s no standard version, but this is as clear as anything:

STRIP ONE

Panel 1: It’s noon and Belinda, backpack slung over her shoulder, stands by the school parking lot.

Belinda: I’m going to get it right this time even if it kills me.

Panel 2: Belinda checks her watch.

Belinda: Or until lunch is over.

Panel 3: Belinda, grimoire open in one hand concentrates and points with the other.

Panel 4: Belinda, wilted. Nothing happened.

Caption: The fifth period bell shakes her out of her trance. She sees she's accomplished...

Belinda: Nothing.

In this description, there’s very little editorializing and really all that’s there is what the artist needs to draw. We’ve established the basics of the location in the first panel, but it’s up to the artist how to best convey that in light of everything else that’s going on. I imagine that there’ll be a background in panels 1 and 2, none in three and probably light sketching in 4. The dialogue lets the artist know how much space to keep open for the letterer and the letterer will have an idea on how to best place the verbage without obscuring the art.

It’s also surprisingly fast to write.

Even if this is the first strip, we know:

  1. She’s working on magic - it’s tough and she’s a beginner and determined

  2. She’s in high school

  3. She’s still got the real world to contend with and it gets in the way of her magical studies

27

I have read your advice/viewpoint a few days ago, and have had some time to think about it.

That wasn’t really what I was doing, was it? After all, I didn’t run out of ideas and then ask people for how it should go. Rather, I posted what would happen next, then asked people how they felt it should go. In addition, I know where I want the plot to go, even if I haven’t posted the complete story. (Ok, so maybe I am guilt of what you are talking about, a little. :wink: )

Now, as I recall, your advice was to post a script to a completed storyline, right? Well, I figured I would have no problem with that. However, I did not figure on how much time I would spend playing mini-golf with my co-workers, and how little sitting around the apartment, or staring at the beach. Thus, in an exercise in helping me figure things out, I will try to post a more solid seeming script, then post a prose version, to see if prose is for me.

Comic strip version of one single scene:

Panel one:
Scene, 3/4th view of a teenage girl’s attic-room, a little more studious looking than most. She has a number of ancient looking volumes, including one on a flatbed scanner, next to the computer. (Not a lot of detail needed. Things will be shown in more detail in panel four. Jennifer is bent under the desk, searching for something.
Narrator:
Our scene begins in the attic room of young Jenny Golightly, age 16. She is destined to be the first true wizard of the current age, and will not quit till she tastes success.

Panel two:
Scene, cross section of the desk, focused on her head and shoulders.
Scene, she bangs her head on the underside of her desk. She has a started looking expression on her face

Panel three:
Scene, She is rubbing the back of her head.
Jenny: “That’s it, I quit!”

Panel four:
Scene: She is getting up from the desk. There is a scanner lying on the desk, on a flatbed scanner.
Narrator: Wait, what did she say?
I need to hit the sack. I’ll finish up researching this particular grimore in the morning.
Narrator: Ohhhhh, that’s what she meant.

**“Funny” version of the same scene, as prose. **
One day, Jennifer Astar Golighly will be the finest [del]Sorcerer[/del] [del]Wizard[/del] Magic user of her generation. I invite you to view her trial and tribulation through this, the time she first learns of true magic.

“That’s it, I quit!”

Wait, what? You can’t quit, you are the heroin of this story. Oh, if only you could hear me.

“I’ll pick up again in the morning.”

Oh. Ok. Never mind than. Wait, did she just hear me?

Serious version of the story, minus any fourth-wall stretching jokes. Coming soon, after I grab something to eat.

28

“I know what to do, I’ll kill her with magic!” Jenny thought to herself. Alice deserved it, after all. Alice “Boom-Boom” Brockermyer had just finished shoving her face into a locker, then walked away with nary a thought. She never got her fill of bullying other, weaker students. She deserved it, no kidding. After all, doesn’t the act of putting oneself above another deserve death? Yes, it most definitely did. With that thought, she raised her hands above her head and began to mutter strange sounding words. After a few seconds, lockers sprang open, seemingly of their own accord. Then, they developed a oddish green ting and separated themselves from the hinges. No sound was produced, but thoughts are best not wasted on such trivial details. The liberated locker doors congregated around her outstretched hands, and flung themselves forward in unison with her out flung hands. The first wave knocked Alice down, and Jennifers decided to send a second wave. Rather than bash into her prone form, some of the doors soundlessly struck her and lay there, seemingly sticking into the teenage bully.

“Arrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhh” the scream seemed to come from both Alice and Jennifer, as if from the same voice, and was so loud that it shocked Jennifer awake. As soon as she realized she had just been dreaming, she hugged herself tightly. No nead for the tears to start flowing, for they had apparently started even before she had woken up. “I want use magic like that! I won’t, I won’t!” she muttered/lectured herself. She went along that vein for quite along time. After a good long while, she sought ti remember where her mother was, and why no one had heard her cries. Well, the attic was quite a ways from the bedrooms, and what’s more, Mom was away on some business trip, and Dad always feel asleep listening to classical music on his headphones, so Jennifer stared out the windows till dawn.

At least, that is what she told herself, till she realized that in order to see she would have to open her eyes. In fact, and sometime during the night she had fallen asleep and simply dreamed that she was awake. She had heard that you could not read in dreams, and had never thought to question that claim, and so, a quick glance at the grimore, or spell book lying at her feat convinced her this was o dream. A hypothetical ommnipotentant observer might be surprised that the teenager would turn to a spell book so automatically, after the events/warning of the dream. However, such an observer would not have had much experience with young Ms. Golightly, and what kind of omnipotent being would admit to that? Jennifer Astar Golightly had spent her whole life attempting to re-introduce about real magic to the world, and a little dream was not going to stop her now. Instead, she would simply depend on her friends…… No, wait, she would stick to being a good person… No, wait, she would do SOMETHING to keep from becoming a horrible perso, but as of yet, she did not know what.

Notes: While I was away, I did not write out what I wanted to say, but instead outlined the genral direction I wanted it to take. Thus, the above paragraphs were just written a little bit ago, and as such need editing. However, I thought I should put down what I have so far. Obviously, I need a better opening line. However, as the Chairman has said, it is not fair to ask others to write a story for you, and as such, I ask people not to send in suggestion for specific opening lines. I will revise this soon, doncha’ worry.

29

“For bullying me all these years, she truly deserves to die.” Obviously, that Sprite I drank isn’t helping at all. I was aiming to write something along the lines of “Happy families are all alike…”, but instead I get cheesy lines. Hmmph.

Well, I can not let myself get bogged down. On to the next paragraph or so.

P.S. It seems to take longer to plan out a description of the scene, but it seems to be flowing much easier than my past attempts over the past few years to write fiction. I do believe prose is the way to go.

If you asked her about herself, she would say that she was a good person, and she would be right. Should you ask her about magic however, she would deny everything, save to sheepishly admit she was kinda deluded when she was a little kid. In fact, this would be nowhere near the truth.

The reality of the situation was that she was, is, and forever shall be obsessed with real magic. When she thinks of magic, she thinks of rhyming incantations, spoken incantations,patterns formed in mid-air, and other such stuff causing the laws of reality, and/or probability to conform to the performers of said actions will. Often mistaken for advanced forms of science. Not exactly the use of naturally occuring energies most modern day pagans think of it as, but still, that is Jennifer for you. This obsession can most likely be traces back to her encountering tales of magic in children’s books, when she was but a little tyke. She was no fool that believed that the stories were chronicles of real events, instead she simply felt they were nice fantasies,pleasant to thonk about. However, she felt they described real pheominon. As she grew older, she realized the importance of concealing her interest in the occult.

30

I know perfectly well where I want to go with this. Thus, no need for anyone to post how they think it should go, despite my earlier requests. However, I am an aspiring author. Thus, it would help to hear if I am on the right track with this prose style, if the scene is easy to visualize, etc. Sure, so this is just shameless egoposting/asking for confirmation. And sure, unless my irony meter is broken (Well, this is the internet), Bricker(!) just provided confirmation of the story’s having appeal a while ago, but this is an attempt to adjust to a new writing style. Please, I welcome editorializing and comments, both about style and about ability.

31

Do you have a name for your heroine yet?

How about calling her Wanda Prentiss.

32

Are we still doing the comic thing or is this switched over to prose? The prose doesn’t work for me - paragraphs are too long and clunky and you’re trying to hard to hit a self-knowing style that tells the audience you know you’re hamming it up.

I recommend you get an entire story’s worth of stuff done (story being defined as something with a conflict) and then post it at once. Getting a lot of writing done at once will help you find your voice and let you judge what works and what doesn’t on your own. I alluded to this before, but giving little bits and pieces and asking for direction will only get you trying to write for the critiquers. I think it’s counterproductive.

If you’re working on the comic, the bit I wrote is probably a bit spartan, but it hits all the points and lets the artist realize a) the basics of what’s going on and b) the theme. It also leaves room for them to interpret the story and add to it on their own - remember, in comics, if you’re not doing everything yourself, it’s a partnership and everyone brings a little bit of their own to the product.

Neil Gaiman had some great advice where he said when he revises his work he reads it like he’s an editor.

33

Now, here is why I am not going to take it.(for the mostpart, at least. I will take some of it, and thanks for spending time on it.)

That, and the advice in a prior post suggests to me that you are far to concerned about only hipsters liking it, and not young adults. In fact, I read the first few paragraphs to a friend of mine and his kid yesterday, and it was well received. I feel happier with the prose than I did with the scripts. Maybe if it becomes successful I can adapt it to a comic book, or a daily comic strip, but for now I think I will go with the prose. Also, your comments about secret identities is missing the point. She is not some girl who will forever keep her parents from knowing she is a wizard, throughout the series. Instead, she is simply a girl experimenting in weird things, and is constantly in danger of them finding out. Perhaps they will. This is not to say that this is not excellent advice that you gave, it is just that I am begging to trust my own judgment on how it is coming out. Oh, one other thing. I am not trying to hit a self-knowing style. Instead, when I get myself in the write mood to write, that is how it unfolds. Frankly, I am just happy to have any kind of style, self-knowing or not that does not copy the style of another author. (That is not to say that other fan fiction writers do not bring their own style to the work, just that I didn’t.)

Yes, you did allude to that, and I acknowledge that that is good advice in a prior post. I may do so soon, but it is not yet the time. My phasing of a request for advice was too close to asking solely for plot advice, and too far from asking for advice on writing. Thus, I will seek out a local gathering of amateur writers, and seek their advice, and perhaps actually socialize, rather tan talk all the damn time. I will not tell them where I want the series to go, but instead simply show example of my storytelling. Hopefully, they will not laugh too hard, :wink: .

Oh, and re: your Neil Gaiman advice and the paragraphs being to bulky, I think you are right. Well, that is what I will do. View it like I am an editor.

Peter Morris: I… Well… Um…

Oh, wait, that pun didn’t mean anything offensive. Nevermind.

Her name is:

P.S. I see GuanoLad and the others have not posted in this thread, lately. I suppose that means they agree with your points. Hmmmmm… I suppose such agreement means I should not take your advice so lightly.

34

I’m puzzled… what did you think I meant?

35

For some odd reason, I felt like explaining that I took offense at first, and only got the joke later, in my reply, probably due to my expecting your post to be much like Kaspar Hauser’s. I first recognized it as a pun, but actually took the time to read it later. When I whooshed past it, I thought it was something more along the lines of one of those semi-offensive names used in prank calls. Had I actually taken the time to see it was simply a meant to sound like “Wand apprentice”, I would not have been offended, but I didn’t, since my mind was elsewhere.