I am not a monster, dammit!!!!!!!!

The BBQ Pit
181

You mean Cheers wasn’t accurate?! Damn you NBC!!!

I’m sorry to digress from the main topic, but that is really upsetting. With respect for your right to protect your kids, and your understandable fear for their safety, I think this was a mistake.

Before I was born, back in 1963, my 10-year-old brother, an excellent swimmer, drowned in our backyard pool because he was doing something stupid but typically 10-year-old boyish. My mom was home but had gone to answer the telephone. Remember, this was 1963, when people still smoked like chimneys and drove without seat belts and let their kids play outside without being packed in bubble wrap. Obviously it was a dreadful lapse in judgment on my mom’s part, but she was a young woman who trusted her son, who’d won medals in swimming and was otherwise a responsible kid.

After this horrifying accident, should she have given up custody of her younger daughter? Never have been allowed to have additional kids like me and my sister? Should my friends’ parents not allowed their kids over to play? Admittedly the house I grew up in didn’t have a pool, not surprisingly. Which adds to my point: do you think most people who’ve suffered such a loss will ever allow a repeat of the circumstances that led to it?

The thing is, this sort of overprotectiveness can harm your children too. With the best of intentions, and formed from an understandable terror of something else happening to her kids, my mom so overprotected me that she instilled a dread of any sort of physical risk, particularly swimming. She didn’t do it by telling me about my brother or the incident – I never even knew he existed until I was 11; instead, her fears were passed on to me by osmosis, by the way she constantly hovered over me, protecting me, keeping me from anything she perceived as a danger. I wasn’t even able to take a bath unless I made a lot of noise playing in the tub. If I stopped making noise she came running. Guess what? Now I’m a neurotic hypochondriac, even though my poor sweet late mom only had my safety at heart.

I’m not saying parents shouldn’t be cautious. I can understand not allowing your kids into that woman’s home if the gun had been, say, one of hers or her husband’s. But taking your child from the daycare, far from the scene of the incident, and punishing that poor woman for something that she probably couldn’t have helped and something that she almost certainly blamed herself for – and had already been punished in the worst way possible? That just seems like a horrible and cruel overreaction.

Would I let my own kids be babysat by Pdoul? Probably not. Would I let them “anywhere near him”? Probably, though that would depend on how well I knew him in person.

Let’s face it: his admitting his struggle probably makes him less of a threat than Joe Hidden Pedophile, who may smile and smile and be a villian.

182

…and of course, this statement justifies my attitude.

You’ve given him something external to blame if he chooses to follow his desires. “It’s not my fault, it’s society’s (or Belrix’s fault) for not supporting me!”

Poor guy, just a victim of society’s callus attitude toward pedophiles.

183

I probably should have given slightly more information, atlhough you’re right in that this is a hijack. The gun had been in her house for at least a few days, but the incident happened elsewhere—though not “far from” her daycare. Down the street. The son lived with her. Also, there had been other, smaller things I had not been very happy with at the daycare and those were taken into consideration as well.

Believe me, though, I did struggle with the decision. I knew she had been through a lot. I offered her a ton of support and compassion and sent cards on days that I knew would be difficult, not just immediately after. But at the end of the day, I had to determine if I was going to be constantly worrying about my kids’ safety when they were in her care. What if one of her remaining children also had run-ins with gangs that led them to determine they needed to get themselves a gun? And, yes, I did judge her unfairly, in the sense that I don’t think it had nothing to do with her. Why did her kid not know that it wasn’t OK to put a gun in your mouth and pretend to pull the trigger, only to be surprised when it went off? I’m sure that was my way of trying to make sense and order out of something so horrifically random. I know there will be plenty of times when my own children will do something stupid and I will be certain that it has nothing to do with what I did or did not teach them, but I had to draw the line somewhere and that was where I drew it. It might not have been fair, but I’m not perfect.

And this is where you and I agree again. The devil you don’t know is a lot more dangerous, a lot of the time. but in the absense of being able to control for every Joe Hidden Pedophile, you control for Joe Admitted One sometimes. In a world where there are so many unforseen risks (what if my kid gets run over by a car?), you control the ones you can (don’t back out of the driveway without checking that the kid isn’t sitting on the pavement behind you.)

184

When and if Pduol makes this claim, you’ll have a point.
He hasn’t, so you don’t.

185

Hey, I am a paraphiliac. My odd fetish is superheroine KO scenes (like watching Wonder Woman get chloroformed, etc.) – odd stuff! Now, just like you, I would never act on these desires in real life, I just keep it on a fantasy level and commission artwork depicting scantily-clad heroines getting knocked out.

You know, I always figured that there were plenty of people with odd desires that just never acted on them, because they had a good strong sense of morality, and weren’t sociopaths. You have a lot of courage posting such info, and I commend you for your restraint!

186

He’s like Naruto! :eek:

I think you’re looking too much towards other people’s ideas of childcare and too little towards your own. It doesn’t matter what kind of shit other people gave you, at all, none.

Those people who said that about parents who let their kids stay with MJ was just opportunists. It is telling that the rumors never materialized into anything concrete, and I even remember seeing some reports after he died about the kid who was paid millions being coached by his parents to say the things he said. I never thought MJ was a pedophile and had I been put into the position of letting my son stay with him or not, I would completely let him do it without a second thought. Rumors and innuendo is crap, and I simply don’t give a shit about what people think MJ allegedly did.

Then again, I’ve already come out and said I hated kids, so maybe people will take this post the wrong way :smiley:

187

No rumor or inuendo here, though. The OP has stated his problem clearly. Still let your kid stay with him?

188

Actually, I think that I’m just paraphrasing Zerial’s viewpoint, that these attitudes that marginalize him would drive him to action. Since these attitudes are society’s (or perhaps mine directly), then I think my restatement of the point is accurate.

To me, Zerial is saying that if we don’t accept him, he’s got greater reason to act on his impulses. Isn’t that blaming society for his actions?

189

What (I presume) Zerial is saying is if someone is punished the same for having desires (and not acting on them) as if he committed the act, what’s the incentive to continue to resist his desires?

190

So what happened in those 13 minutes between those two statements? You go from a perfectly reasonable stance (non-marginalizing but wary of specifically dangerous alone-type situations) to randomly declaring that any concern at all was “enabling”.

Look at it this way: You go to a store every day. Whether or not you shoplift something, you get detained for several hours when you try to leave, because you once posted how you like a item the store sells but you can’t afford it so you aren’t going to get it. The punishment for shoplifting is a week of detainment instead of a few hours. How long is it going to be before you go “fuck it, I’m just going to take the damn thing, the punishment isn’t much worse.”

I’m not saying to trust him. I’m not saying he’s blame-free if he acts on that logic. I’m saying A) that logic is comprehensible and relate-able and B) we therefore as a society have an obligation to not be so overzealous in our watchfulness of potential offenders that they come to feel justified in offending. Again, your original quoted statement above is just fine, as far as I’m concerned.

191

Well, I’ve always believed in second chances. If this guy’s been around kids without doing them harm, then I’ll take my chances.

Personally, I think American society makes too big of a deal out of sex. Like, monstrously big. To the point where I feel that this shit cannot go on without some kind of violent revolution.

Tie that in to my own personal beliefs that may scare people, and it makes me think that it would be me overreacting if I were to simply hear somebody talk about this and immediately become like one of those overprotective parents that I hate. I do not want to become like those people. If I did not trust Pduol when he’s already admitted these feelings, then I would be like those people.

Hell, there are plenty of people I would beat up, kill, or otherwise harm if given the chance. I don’t do it because I would go to jail. To me, that’s a big motivator for me to stay on the law-abiding side. Just hearing Pduol agonize over his lot in life is enough to convince me that there are plenty of others who feel the same way. The threat of prison is there, don’t discount it.

So yes, I would allow him to babysit my 11 year old daughter.

192

Human empathy?

193

Does a guy who is into young girls get fired up over someone like Pia Zadora. She looked like a kid until she hit 40. There are actresses that look much younger than their real age. Are they turn ons, or do they actually have to be young?

194

The thread to answer that question is never going to happen. Probably not worth bringing up.

195

I think this is it. He says he likes young girls.

196

In the situation I was in, other people’s opinions weren’t the basis of my decision. My point is just that I fully would have expected, “Well, what did you expect?!” if I did leave my kids there and something happened. It was a difficult decision, as I said, and one that pained me. But in the end, all I had to go on was my gut instinct and my understanding that I would never be comfortable returning there. Right or wrong, that’s how I felt.

/hijack

To tie it back in, I don’t think there’s any one right answer to the question of “Would you leave your kid with someone who was a self-admitted pedophile?” Too many variables.

197

…Goes both ways.

198

I would think you’d want to give him every possible incentive not to act, at least if your motive is preventing acts, protecting kids and rehabilitating those that can be, as opposed to simple vengence (I’m not saying you personally)
The expectation of refaining from pretty much all sex, while remaining a social pariah on the basis of an appeal to empathy is a standard very few people could meet.

199

But I don’t think it’s an apt analogy to shop lifting. If someone punishes you for even thinking you’d want something that’s expensive then of course you’re going to think, I might as well shoplift it. But if you’re punished for expressing a desire for a child, and you think I might as well act on my desire…that’s different to me, because you’re hurting a very real victim, in a different way. At least if you’re shoplifting then you’re striking back at the same people punishing you for your “thought crime.” When it comes to child molestation, the one you’re punishing is an innocent third party victim.

200

Meh, obviously it’s not a perfect analogy. The point remains–there’s a difference between appropriate precautions and wild paranoia, and wild paranoia is going to push people over the borderline from “thinks about it” to “does it”.