[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
Actually, it’s universal. I’m a not-far-off-middle-age white guy, and I would be discriminated against just about weekly. Both my workplace and my neighbourhood are places where white skin is a minority. Of course, the discrimination I encounter is very minor, and sometimes I’m not sure the person doing it even realises, as it’s hard to tell where discrimination starts. The only blatant example I’ve had happen was a few weeks ago in an Indian take-away food store that a (white) friend had recommended. I walked in as an Indian girl was being served before me, so I waited. While I waited, a second server came behind the counter but refused to make eye contact, and did lots of busy work. Then about a dozen Indian folk all came into the shop together, and both servers started calling over my shoulder to them, using tricks like saying “Can I help you?” to the next person while simultaneously making the previous one’s change, so I couldn’t get a word in. In the end (seven minutes waiting) I told them to shove their shop and walked out. I would have been a regular customer too. It was good in a way, as I felt humiliated and ostracised as a victim of “textbook” racism, and everyone needs to experience that. However, it’s the only example I can recall happening to me. Most times it’s more subtle.
[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm…I’m just wondering, is that really “RACISMracism” or is that more “stick it to ‘the MAN’”?
Kindof a take down the BMOC kind of action? Generally when I face that sort of “racism” it’s “you white devils took our land”. I’m not sure I consider that true racism. After all, we supposedly are automatically imbued with automatic success and wealth merely due to the color of our skin.
That example was a recent event and I’ll admit it wasn’t casual, but it embodies the same attitude that’s all too common. He’s Asian, therefore it is acceptable to make offensive comments to his face.
For example in the thread mentioned earlier, do you think when someone asks about Black stereotypes the first reply would say “they like fried chicken, and from my personal experience it’s true.”
Why do I have to defend my outrage to begin with? Am I coming off too strong for an Asian? You don’t think my anger is justified?
[/QUOTE]
No, actually I DO think it was justified. My comment meant that I didn’t consider it “casual” as in your subject title. I consider the drunken moron’s comments more than casual, I thought it more bordered on deliberate, (unless he was drunkenly thinking he was being funny, STILL not acceptable, but perhaps not intentionally racist) and therefore more offensive.
[QUOTE=r4nd0mNumb3rs]
I’m also inclined to believe that CanvaShoes is rather skeptical of my dilemma. I mean, everyone but middle aged white guys experience discrimination, right?
Again, why am I being told how upset I should be about this? Why do I need to take a break?
(To be completely honest, I’m not even that angry, I just curse a lot when I can get away with it)
[/QUOTE]
Not at all! I thought I was being more clear than that. My comment about middle-aged white guys was mere explanation (if you’d read on) regarding how people tend to fear and discriminate against differences, and that I don’t agree with that stance. It in no way meant you weren’t supposed to be annoyed or upset by comments directed at you for being Asian.
Well, it’s still racism. There’s the kind of racism that white people often experience in Korea, which is something along the lines of “you white people let the Japanese colonize us and then split our country in two and now your military hogs our best land and rapes all our women, so I feel justified in being mean to you.” It springs from resentment of the fact that Koreans feel they’ve been mistreated by the American government for decades, and however justifiable it may seem it’s still judging people based on the fact that they’re white (and American as well, I suppose, though few Koreans make the effort to find out whether you’re American or Canandian or British before they judge you). Sounds like racism to me.
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
Well, it’s still racism. There’s the kind of racism that white people often experience in Korea, which is something along the lines of “you white people let the Japanese colonize us and then split our country in two and now your military hogs our best land and rapes all our women, so I feel justified in being mean to you.” It springs from resentment of the fact that Koreans feel they’ve been mistreated by the American government for decades, and however justifiable it may seem it’s still judging people based on the fact that they’re white (and American as well, I suppose, though few Koreans make the effort to find out whether you’re American or Canandian or British before they judge you). Sounds like racism to me.
[/QUOTE]
Could be. My comment was more of a wondering about it than stating a fact. Though I read a post some time ago that stated something along the lines that a ruling class couldn’t experience racism because racism required opression to actually fit the technical definition of racism.
NOT saying I agree, but that attitude is out there, from what I’ve read and heard, mostly by non-white people.
[QUOTE=CanvasShoes]
Could be. My comment was more of a wondering about it than stating a fact. Though I read a post some time ago that stated something along the lines that a ruling class couldn’t experience racism because racism required opression to actually fit the technical definition of racism.
NOT saying I agree, but that attitude is out there, from what I’ve read and heard, mostly by non-white people.
[/QUOTE]
Well the OED has two definitions:
The theory that distinctive human characteristics and abilities are determined by race.
Belief in the superiority of a particular race leading to prejudice and antagonism towards people of other races, esp. those in close proximity who may be felt as a threat to one’s cultural and racial integrity or economic well-being.
Not to rehash the whole debate (I remember reading it as well) but if one judges someone based solely on their skin color, that falls under the first definition at least.
[QUOTE=China Guy] r4nd0mNumb3rs, please weigh in here. I personally find this BWAHaHaHaHAHAHA funny and not racist. (Sure, someone out there with his panties in a twist can always find something to get upset about.) I mean Ninja is so ludicrous from the get go, I certainly can’t find it offensive. Do you have a personal barometer for when something is amusing (or at least not insulting), kinda neutral and over the line?
for example, **athelas ** and “that’s plain wong” is one of those that are over the line for me. Tasteless and insensitive, but not horribly racist. Another example of the not so blatant racism. Abercombie and Fitch has a “two wongs don’t make a white” t-shirt not too long ago (there was a thread but I can’t find it). Again, r4nd0mNumb3rs, I am curious as to what your take is on this in general.
[/QUOTE]
Here’s how it looks from my end. I start a thread about racism. The OP comes off a bit strong, but I figured it’s the Pit so whatever. I make my position concerning Asian jokes being told to me pretty clear. But of course this White guy comes along and sees fit to make a smarmy joke. The joke itself wasn’t too bad but just by principle it was a tacky thing to do. So I figured since we’re all being dicks why don’t I go all out. But apparently I’m not allowed to do that.
How about this. When friends make Asian jokes, I laugh and I don’t think much of it. But when people I barely know see fit to mock my race, then I have a problem. It’s pretty obvious to me that disrespecting Asians is generally perfectly acceptable. Even the fact that guy called me a chink barely raised an eyebrow.
The jokes in this thread are not playful ribbing towards me, but just blatant and insulting disregard for my position about something they know nothing about. At a social gathering, why does my race instantly make me the target for cheapshots? I make comebacks, ignore them if they contain no malice, etc but I’m just tired of having to do that. Here’s another classic one. Some guy I just met informs me that he used to have an Asian friend he nicknamed “Gookie Monster”. I will admit that is somewhat clever, but also completely inappropriate from him to me. I can chalk up those things to ignorance or just tactlessness, but it’s getting old. Most of the jokes here are not that offensive on their own. But in this context, I find them to be extremely disrespectful.
Like I said earlier, why can’t I have a thread about racism without a bunch of white people questioning and mocking me?
[QUOTE=China Guy]
Abercombie and Fitch has a “two wongs don’t make a white” t-shirt not too long ago (there was a thread but I can’t find it).
[/QUOTE]
It was “Two Wongs can make it white.”
Pretty tasteless, but “two Wongs don’t make a white” would be way worse.
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
I tolerate a lot of mock-racist jokes from my friends, but I think someone calling me a chink might be the limits of my tolerance.
[/QUOTE]
I spent my entire childhood being called a “chink” … I’m Sicilian and German, but I have olive skin, straight dark hair, “almond eyes” and puffy eyelids that very much resemble an epicanthic fold. Didn’t help that my German surname rhymed with “wang” either. People still ask me if I am Asian, though no one has hurled an ethnic slur at me since about 1982, when I got out of high school.
What I’m getting at is, I sympathize. The fact that I am not Asian in ancestry didn’t make a bit of difference to the ignoramuses who tormented me and it didn’t make a bit of difference in how much it hurt me, either.
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee] FRDE, what exactly would you like to know about N. Korea? I’m no expert - I just know about as much as the average South Korean would know.
[/QUOTE]
Well my jaw dropped when I saw your post about N and S Koreans barely being able to understand each other. I had assumed that it was more like East and West Germany - virtually no differences.
Is this something historical, or has it developed over the past 60 years ?
I’m really curious about how South Koreans view the North, and the differences between the two. Especially as I see some form of re-unification as the next positive thing that will happen. Perhaps I’m wrong there.
[QUOTE=China Guy]
Chink is always derogatory and racist.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, don’t worry–so is “nigger.” The problem is that too many Blacks lack the intelligence, pride, and historical perspective to give a damn. (And yes, I’m Black. In case anyone wonders, is all.)
[QUOTE=China Man]
“I christianed down the luggage guy 20%” (thanks Kinkster)
[/QUOTE]
Dude, I don’t know what Kinkster is, but thanks for this. I’ll have to keep it in mind for the next time I’m tempted to ram a syphillitic mace up someone’s ass for saying “Jew down” (which, thank goodness, happens rarely in my experience), or for thinking that it’s okay to say it in my presence because “Well, y’know, Li’l Pluck, you’re a **Black ** Jew–you’re not, like, one of those **White ** Jews.” :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=r4nd0mNumb3rs]
Complete stranger. He wasn’t joking, if that’s what you’re asking. So I guess the answer to the third question is ‘yes’. But even if he was joking, it doesn’t make it that much better.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for filling in the details.
That sounds extremely offensive, my initial thought was that he was making a joke in bad taste.
I think you are going to need to work out a way of handling this sort of thing, just in case you run into another idiot - hopefully you will not. I’m not sure what to suggest, but losing ones self control seldom helps - possibly looking puzzled and asking ‘what do you mean ?’.
[QUOTE=Frank]
He is partly of Cherokee ancestry.
[/QUOTE]
John Ross, our beloved chief during Indian Hater Jackson’s massacre, was 1/8 Cherokee and 7/8 white. By way of comparison, I am the reverse.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
John Ross, our beloved chief during Indian Hater Jackson’s massacre, was 1/8 Cherokee and 7/8 white. By way of comparison, I am the reverse.
[/QUOTE]
So, what you’re saying is that you are almost Cherokee.
Er, perhaps I’m being whooshed, but what are you getting at? He’s very clearly saying that he’s 7/8 Cherokee and 1/8 white; is that not Cherokee enough for some purpose?
On edit: Actually, I suppose you’re just noting that he has much more Cherokee ancestry than Frank’s statement might give the impression of.
[QUOTE=Li’l Pluck]
Dude, I don’t know what Kinkster is, but thanks for this. I’ll have to keep it in mind for the next time I’m tempted to ram a syphillitic mace up someone’s ass for saying “Jew down” (which, thank goodness, happens rarely in my experience), or for thinking that it’s okay to say it in my presence because “Well, y’know, Li’l Pluck, you’re a **Black ** Jew–you’re not, like, one of those **White ** Jews.” :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE] Kinky Friedman, musician, crime detective author, former gubernatural candidate for Texas. First claim to fame as the frontman for Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys with such classics as “get your biscuits out of the oven and your buns in bed.” Being a Jewish Texan and member of the Kosher Cowboys, Kinky pretty much feels he has a free pass to speak his mind. And I picked up the “Christian down” from him. Use appropriately.
[QUOTE=r4nd0mNumb3rs]
How about this. When friends make Asian jokes, I laugh and I don’t think much of it. But when people I barely know see fit to mock my race, then I have a problem. It’s pretty obvious to me that disrespecting Asians is generally perfectly acceptable. Even the fact that guy called me a chink barely raised an eyebrow.
The jokes in this thread are not playful ribbing towards me, but just blatant and insulting disregard for my position about something they know nothing about. At a social gathering, why does my race instantly make me the target for cheapshots? I make comebacks, ignore them if they contain no malice, etc but I’m just tired of having to do that. Here’s another classic one. Some guy I just met informs me that he used to have an Asian friend he nicknamed “Gookie Monster”. I will admit that is somewhat clever, but also completely inappropriate from him to me. I can chalk up those things to ignorance or just tactlessness, but it’s getting old. Most of the jokes here are not that offensive on their own. But in this context, I find them to be extremely disrespectful.
Like I said earlier, why can’t I have a thread about racism without a bunch of white people questioning and mocking me?
[/QUOTE]
That’s a pretty good rule of thumb, thanks. I hope you don’t think I’m mocking you, as certainly not my intent. And looking for pointers on how to handle when I run into this same shit with my wife or kids.
On these boards for example, I often reply that “you had a typo, it’s spelled Japan.” Some people get it, and others get up on their high horse about how it’s not racist and how these words in they way they mean are not racist.
[QUOTE=China Guy] Kinky Friedman, musician, crime detective author, former gubernatural candidate for Texas. First claim to fame as the frontman for Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys with such classics as “get your biscuits out of the oven and your buns in bed.” Being a Jewish Texan and member of the Kosher Cowboys, Kinky pretty much feels he has a free pass to speak his mind. And I picked up the “Christian down” from him. Use appropriately.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, Kinky Friedman! Of course! :smack: Though I’m not super-familiar with him, I do know who he is (but thanks, just the same, for the info); I just didn’t recognize him by the “Kinkster” appellation.
I’ll humbly accept your props for not getting in a fight with a drunk dumbass, but if they come with snide jokes that are more likely than not an attempt to get a rise out of me, then you can take your props and fuck off. There’s nothing to buy here for you man. If you’ve had similar experiences, then please feel free to share them. If not, take your psuedo-psychoanalysis elsewhere.
[/QUOTE]
You backed off from a fight IRL, then you came here and picked one online. I offered you the possibility that you exercised pacifism, but obviously you wish you could have hurt that guy, so you’re taking it out on us.
“Pseudo-psychology” is a term used by people when they’re called on their bullshit in terms more complex than “you’re an asshole.”
[QUOTE=Slithy Tove]
You backed off from a fight IRL, then you came here and picked one online. I offered you the possibility that you exercised pacifism, but obviously you wish you could have hurt that guy, so you’re taking it out on us.
“Pseudo-psychology” is a term used by people when they’re called on their bullshit in terms more complex than “you’re an asshole.”
[/QUOTE]
There was no fight in IRL to back off from. Like I said, I wasn’t that angry at that guy. I’m still not. He was drunk and if I had hit him, it would have been in poor taste. I had the final word anyway.
So can you just please fuck off? How does any of this concern you? Who are you to offer me “the possibility that you exercised pacifism”? Are you the King of the Pit now? If it seems like I’m getting angry, it’s because of assholes like you. Not the drunk guy.
