I asked them to put it on my form: no killing... Draft gearing up

The BBQ Pit
#1

Salon had an article about a new push to fill vacancies in the draft boards across the country.

Officially, people are saying it isn’t in the cards. But, I think officially, the war was over some months ago. As a certified draft dodger (one of the few things Bush and I have in common), this has me a bit nervous.

I diagree with war and with the draft (though, notably, I refused to register back in 1997), and refuse to be part of it. I don’t consider it to be an especially radical position to refuse to participate in a war with which you disagree. It is not, in my view, radical to say not register for the draft.

I would burn my draft card if I had one, but I don’t since I never registered. I don’t regret my decision to not register. It is not my intent to register now. However, I don’t espcially want to go to jail for it. The latter, however, is by far more appealing than the former.

Maybe it is to politcally hot, especially for an election year. One can only hope.

#2

Oh dang nab it, there is another thread on this in GD.

Apologies to the mods and their minions, the hamsters.

#3

Short,

Um…you do know that the best way to avoid getting hijacked by the draft is to actually enlist and get a MOS or AFSC which will keep you out of combat, right?

BTW, why did you decide not to sign up for Selective Service, if you don’t mind my asking?

#4

Well, a government agency that is not facing cut backs and outsourcing; how quaint.

#5

Uh, not. According to a recent Stars and Stripes poll, 60% of servicemen currently stationed in Iraq are doing duties totally unrelated to their training. You get sent where they want you. There’s no such thing in the military as a binding promise that would keep you out of combat.

#6

Remind me to hug my wife, two kids, and this horrific back problem I have. :smiley: And when I turn 35 next year, I’ll even hoist one for the draft board, whom I am well past by now, and wouldn’t even make an effort to visit if called.

Now, if my kids think it’s fine to go into the Armed Services that’ll be fine. I don’t believe in them, and I certanly don’t take orders from anyone.

#7

Well, if you do like my brother is doing and go into something like computer programming in the Air Force your chances of being on the front lines are pretty damn slim.

I’ll believe that the draft is reactivating when I see it. Unfortunately, I put almost nothing awful past this administration.

So does my brother, but I guess he’s got it together enough to look at going into the service as serving the COUNTRY, not serving Bush and his buddies personally. I just hope he’s not alone in that.

#8

The way the military fills workforce assignments is to first grab available people with the right MOS. If they can’t find enough (because they’re already assigned to something else and can’t be pulled away), then they grab whoever is available.

If they have more people with your MOS/AFSC than they have billets for it, you go in the general labor pool, and could easily find yourself guarding a supply depot somewhere or whatever, especially if the other people with your MOS outrank you in grade or years of service (which, as a recent inductee, they will).

Don’t rely on a specialized MOS/AFSC from keeping you out of combat; it won’t. Computer programming is an especially bad one: there’s a LOT of people in the military with that MOS now, probably more than there are billets.

#9

The position taken by the OP is beautiful. Essentially, he is saying that he enjoys the benefits and privileges of living in this Country, but when it comes to abiding by the laws thereof, he takes selective exemption, and if pressed, will flee. Now there is a shining example of personal fortitude-a man of inner strength, one whose principles are unwavering, a true paragon of virtue.

While I wasn’t enamored with the conflict in Southeast Asia, I still registered for the draft when I turned 18 because it was the law. Had I been called, I’d have gone, because in my book of standards, you can’t have it both ways.

Worry not, man of great integrity. Given that you have been flying under the radar since 1997, your 26th birthday is not long in coming, and you can then escape the onerous prospect of potentially serving the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave, as have all the men and women interred at Arlington.

#10

danceswithcats, are you implying that Mennonites and other conscientious objectors are hypocrites for enjoying America’s freedoms without entertaining the possibility of military service?

Or are you only talking about the OP specifically?

#11

This is exactly what’s wrong with America: parents not believing in their children.

#12

Some people, like myself, feel that their moral objection to killing people who are not a threat to my country or people is more important than the law.

Do you draw the line somewhere? Or do you feel that because you live in the US you must do everything the gov’t orders you to do, no matter how odius or against your personal beliefs it is?

#13

Just a couple of nitpicks:

(1) Short, you cannot be a draft dodger if you were first required to register in 1997. If a draft is reinstated, then you can make that claim, but there hasn’t been a draft for quite some time for you to dodge.

(2) President Bush played his cards to avoid active combat duty, and skipped out early on his service, but he didn’t dodge the draft either. By signing up for the Texas Air National Guard, he couldn’t be drafted.

I guess what you and President Bush have in common is that neither of you have dodged a draft. Former President Clinton, on the other hand, can proudly claim to have dodged a draft.

Sorry for letting facts get in the way of a rant.

#14

danceswithcats
If the USA was really in danger, I would be more likely to agree with you. But in the case of a war started based on shaky, false or no evidence, for suspect reasons, I have to disagree.

If the draft is reinstated, it will be an involuntary call up to a voluntary (for the USA) war. The greatest asset of this country is the right of it’s people to speak out, including against wrongs done by the government. A draft for our current military actions would be just such a wrong.

In addition, Short never said that he would flee instead of register. In fact, he states that going to jail is more appealing than being drafted. To me, it sounds like Short has made a choice, and will live with the results.

I have great respect for all of the women and men who are in the armed services now. But they are there of their own free will. I support them to the fullest, but I can’t support the people and policies that sent them there.

#15

Emmerson: “What are you doing in there?”
Whitman: “What are YOU doing out there?”
Matchka: “Walt, you’re a self-righteous dick, you deserve to be in the clink. But thanks for protesting.”

One of the beautiful things about this country is that we are offered choices. Take the draft for instance. Short has exercised his 1st Ammendment right to speak out against it. Bravo–It seems crazy to put a rifle…and a bayonette…in the hands of a pacifist and force him to evicerate his own morality by taking another life. His choice (since we’re talking about the hypothetical reinstatement of the draft) is to “go to war or go to jail.” Now jail ain’t a pretty place so I’ve been told, but at least he can opt to go there. Yep, same goes for the reasonably harmless & peace-loving Mennonites. NOBODY has to go to war in this country. So leave Short alone with his choice…but if I catch him sneaking accross a border when his number comes up, well, then I will use harsh language against him and revile his very essence for as long as I have consciousness.

The creation of this country would not have been possible without the blood sacrifice of the willing volunteer. Through such efforts, as well as the creation of non-bloody social structures and pressures, have we hacked a relatively safe and secure homeland out of the wilderness. Is it a damn good life we have? It must be because I don’t see uneasy crowds of desperate people massing at the borders waiting for a chance to run away. Just the opposite–even though we currently enjoy our own style of fascist dictatorship.

No uneasy crowds, that is, until the hypocrites who have enjoyed the safety within our borders are called to defend them, or worse–assist outsiders with a struggle against an oppression the like of which most US Citizens can barely comprehend. Does anyone know someone who fled Iraq to the US? They didn’t just book the flight with their local travel agent, did they? And they didn’t just move to the other side of the planet because they like Hostess Ding Dongs, did they? This place ROCKS and the whole workld knows it! It’s not perfect, there is poverty & crime & bigotry & corruption to some degree at different levels of government, but that’s the human condition–you’d get that at cave-man level.

I’m not so blind as to believe for one minute that we waged war on a 3rd world country (and will do so again just as soon as we re-establish it’s military) because our sensibilities were offended by the treatment endured by the Iraqi people. But a result of that conflict was that the devil they knew is now gone. Are some of our folks being killed over there? Sure–and while it makes me sick to see my countrymen fall in combat, at least some spirit survives in Iraq, and that’s good. If they manage to run us off, that’s even BETTER. For us as well as for them. Even though I am offended by killing, I am even more so by the sight of a completely crushed people. At least THEY are willing to kill and die for something–unlike dodgers who sniff the roses of freedom all their lives while never cultivating anything themselves.

The draft is not reinstated yet. All the signs point toward reinstatement. Where is the organized cry against it? If there is a contingient in the USA that opposes the draft, let them speak NOW (to our leaders, dumbass, not to some stupid circle-jerk of a message board) or get ready to make a simple choice.

And one more thing, for those who join up as active duty or national guard in search of an MOS specifically to avoid combat: You are WORSE than dodgers, because you don’t even have the balls to stand up for what you believe–go to war, or go to jail.

#16

I disagree with the Selective Service. I don’t think it is within the scope of government to require me (or anyone else) to go to war. I believe I am personally responsible for my actions, and can not in good conscience agree to agree to fight** in a future war which I very likely will disagree with.

**Or be put into a lotto, in which my selection would require…

CO status is not assured, and I don’t see it as wise to participate in a system wherein others judge the validity of my moral objections. I don’t recognize the authority to make such a decision, so why participate? There are indeed plenty of ways to avoid military service. Even in the event of a draft, it is not clear how gays will be dealt with, and it seems likely that it will be an easy out for many people. On the other hand, doing such is hardly a principled position.

#17

My father “dodged the draft”: he kept getting deferments on the grounds that he was a graduate student, or recently married, or with a new child. Not that he did anything special to get those deferments, he just happened to qualify for each one whenever he got called to report. I don’t think he went out of his way to avoid service, but when given an opportunity to do so he elected not to serve.

I don’t think this makes him a bad person. The law gave him the choice to request not to serve, he requested not to serve, and the request was honored. I would have done the same thing in his place.

I’m registered with Selective Service. I went in to do so shortly after my 18th birthday. In the event that the draft is reinstated and I’m called (pretty unlikely since I’m 34), I fully intend to request exemption from service. I don’t feel that, by doing so, I dishonor myself or my country in any way. If you think that in doing so, I am being dishonorable, you can fuck yourself.

#18

There’s nothing wrong with working within the system to avoid service or combat (various deferments, conscientious objector status, etc…)

There’s also nothing wrong with joining a different branch of the service in order to not get drafted into the Army, a-la Bush.

What is contemptible is the unlawful and cowardly flight to Canada or other countries instead of facing the consequences of your decision not to be drafted. (i.e. jail) That’s why people get so aggravated with draft dodgers, not because they don’t want to fight.

#19

I’ve considered fucking myself, but speculate it to be a difficult proposition given my lack of required flexibility, required endowment and personal aversion to anal sex.

he just happened to qualify for each one whenever he got called to report.
There’s a difference between dodging and exercising legal options. You needn’t be defensive. I don’t have a problem with wanting to avoid potential combat, it’s not for everyone. I was harping about folks who for some reason would NOT have qualified for a legal exemption and yet chose not to take their lumps according to the laws under which they have chosen to live.

#20

Interesting the way you define “mixed republic”, which is the govenment in the United States of America. Now, who, exactly, is our fascist dictator? DON’T say Bush

“Some stupid circle-jerk of a message board”? Glad to know that you enjoy talking with intelligent people on the SDMB. Thanks for posting!

Yes, but if you join the army under any branch, you might fight anyway. The people who do this are facing the risk(s) of being called to fight and/or violating a personal belief in pacifism (or any religion that requires that believers kill absolutely nobody for any reason).

So you’re saying that the ONLY way to protect freedom is to fight in a war? Interesting . . .